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Thread: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

  1. #1
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    With the non-waiver deadline having come and gone and no pitchers moved, I wonder how/where Willis fits in the picture. Small sample size and all that, but assuming that he pitches well the rest of the way, something's got to give in the off-season, right?

    Cueto
    Bailey
    Leake
    Arroyo
    Willis
    Wood
    Volquez
    Chapman


    I understand having depth, but that's a logjam. Obviously, assuming all are healthy, Cueto, Bailey, & Leake are here for the long haul. With Arroyo's contract extension, you'd think he is too (not a given, though). Most everyone is hoping and praying that Chapman is moved to the rotation. So what gives for next year?

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Of those listed:

    Cueto
    Leake
    Bailey
    Willis

    On those I would like to see 2012. The problem is with the year Willis has had so far he is going to go for one more big cash payday elsewhere with how many teams need pitching. I truely do not expect him to be in Cincy next year.
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    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    At 2,3,4 million dollars, I think he might be a little rich for the Reds blood, honestly. I don't expect him to resign, although I'm sure he'd like to give the Reds the best shot at it, if he ends up with the leverage. I think it's still early to tell if he's turned a corner. All I know is keep him in the NL, dude can rake.

  5. #4
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Cueto
    Leake
    Bailey
    Arroyo
    Chapman

    Enough Volquez nonsense. Wood is a flyball pitcher, he's got to go as well. It'd be tough to get real value for him though. I think he'd thrive in Seattle, for example.

  6. #5
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Cueto
    Leake
    Bailey
    Arroyo
    Chapman

    Enough Volquez nonsense. Wood is a flyball pitcher, he's got to go as well. It'd be tough to get real value for him though. I think he'd thrive in Seattle, for example.
    I agree with this, except I think you can get some value for Wood still, and if you can't just keep him around for insurance.

  7. #6
    Lets Go 'Bird' Hunting The Voice of IH's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    It makes me sick that Arroyo is under contract for as long as he is. I hope we can figure out a way to dump him soon. I appreciate the things he did for the Reds in the past 5 or 6 years but he is single handily creating a log jam and not allowing our (what I see as DOMINATE) young pitching to blossom.

    Volquez has not panned out as well as we would hope. With the depth that this team has I don't see him getting too many more chances left. I would like to send him away also. Though I think the price should be somewhat high as he is young and has that nasty stuff scouts always talk about. I think a team would have to 'take a chance on him' to lure him away from the organization.

    Willis is a nice story, but he has not proved anything yet. I hope we can ride him right into the playoffs this year but it is likily that this will run out of steam. Wood is the guy I feel the franchise needs to focus on. Wood is a left hander that has great stuff and is cool under pressure. He is a guy I see in the rotation down the road.

    Obviously I am with the rest of the group when it comes to Chapman. He is a future starter. I was for him being in the bullpen this year though, because of the logjam that they currently have. But I see him making the transition into his new role as early as next year.

    Overall, here is my rotation for the 2012 season.

    Cueto
    Leake
    Chapman
    Bailey
    Wood

    Willis either bust or gone, Arroyo hopefully 'dumped' or sent to the bullpen. Volquez traded away to a team willing to take a chance.

    I am not sure about you guys, but I get excited when I see that rotation.
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  8. #7
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    On those I would like to see 2012. The problem is with the year Willis has had so far he is going to go for one more big cash payday elsewhere with how many teams need pitching. I truely do not expect him to be in Cincy next year.
    That's probably not very high on the list of worries.
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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice of IH View Post
    It makes me sick that Arroyo is under contract for as long as he is. I hope we can figure out a way to dump him soon. I appreciate the things he did for the Reds in the past 5 or 6 years but he is single handily creating a log jam and not allowing our (what I see as DOMINATE) young pitching to blossom.

    Volquez has not panned out as well as we would hope. With the depth that this team has I don't see him getting too many more chances left. I would like to send him away also. Though I think the price should be somewhat high as he is young and has that nasty stuff scouts always talk about. I think a team would have to 'take a chance on him' to lure him away from the organization.

    Willis is a nice story, but he has not proved anything yet. I hope we can ride him right into the playoffs this year but it is likily that this will run out of steam. Wood is the guy I feel the franchise needs to focus on. Wood is a left hander that has great stuff and is cool under pressure. He is a guy I see in the rotation down the road.

    Obviously I am with the rest of the group when it comes to Chapman. He is a future starter. I was for him being in the bullpen this year though, because of the logjam that they currently have. But I see him making the transition into his new role as early as next year.

    Overall, here is my rotation for the 2012 season.

    Cueto
    Leake
    Chapman
    Bailey
    Wood

    Willis either bust or gone, Arroyo hopefully 'dumped' or sent to the bullpen. Volquez traded away to a team willing to take a chance.

    I am not sure about you guys, but I get excited when I see that rotation.
    Volquez is not "young" anymore. He is 28. (I realize that 28 is still young in absolute terms, but not in baseball terms. He's not a prospect anymore.) Actually, he's only a year younger than Willis.

  10. #9
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFelixCat View Post
    With the non-waiver deadline having come and gone and no pitchers moved, I wonder how/where Willis fits in the picture. Small sample size and all that, but assuming that he pitches well the rest of the way, something's got to give in the off-season, right?

    Cueto
    Bailey
    Leake
    Arroyo
    Willis
    Wood
    Volquez
    Chapman


    I understand having depth, but that's a logjam. Obviously, assuming all are healthy, Cueto, Bailey, & Leake are here for the long haul. With Arroyo's contract extension, you'd think he is too (not a given, though). Most everyone is hoping and praying that Chapman is moved to the rotation. So what gives for next year?

    Thoughts?
    Wood currently isn't doing anything to help himself, so for now...he's off my list.

    Volquez is currently throwing surprisingly well at Louisville. But I have no faith in him doing so with the Reds. He's off my list as well and I hope he continues to tear it up at AAA and we get somebody to bite on him.

    So that leaves the biggest question...Chapman. First off, I'd say the odds are kinda long that the Reds pick up Cordero's option. So, that means we're going to need a closer for 2012. For a while it was thought Masset was that guy. Not so much anymore. Some have talked of Logan taking up that role next year. For a contending team...I'd have to pass on that. So that leaves me with 2 options. 1, we get a closer in the off season via a trade or FA. 2, we groom Aroldis for the closer slot.

    Let me go on record as saying I do NOT want Chapman to be a closer or even a reliever next season. He needs to be stretched out for a slot in the rotation. Let him start the season in Louisville and if/when we need a starter, call him up. If we don't...let him learn it at AAA and we suck it up and keep Bronson in the rotation.

    So for me, I go with this for 2012.

    Cueto
    Bailey
    Leake
    Willis
    Arroyo

    Closer: FA signing/trade acquisition
    Volquez traded
    Wood gains more experience in AAA
    Chapman gains more experience in AAA as a starter.
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  11. #10
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    A few more good starts and a good report from scouts and I slide a 2 yr 8 million offer across the table. Worst case he falls off a cliff again but realistic worst case he is a LOOGY.

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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Who's more likely to succeed in a 2012 Reds rotation: Willis or Volquez?

  13. #12
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Who's more likely to succeed in a 2012 Reds rotation: Willis or Volquez?
    That's a tough question.

    Volquez's stuff is better, but I think that Willis's makeup is better and probably the 'safer' bet.


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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    For next season, I'd go one of three routes. Actually, I'd go all three routes at once.

    1. I'd look to teams in need of quantity pitching (duh) and offer a two-, three-, or possibly even four-for-one deal in quality. (A Wood, Volquez, Heisey deal for Scott Baker seems like a winner for both sides. So might an Alonso, Francisco, Stubbs deal for Greinke, though that would take some stones.)
    2. I'd also look to the free agent route, as there are at least five TOR starters (Oswalt, CJ Wilson, Wainwright, Maholm, and Beuhrle) available.
    3. I'd revisit talks with Tampa about Shields, as they obviously need to trim their budget and finally look to be tired of Upton.

    My keepers are Cueto and Chapman. Everyone else is available, though I'd prefer to hang on to Bailey and Leake, if possible. Willis might be a great August waiver line deal for a team that needs a starter late.

    I'd also try to sell Arroyo on becoming a closer, a la Eckersley to prolong his career. Otherwise, he'd be my sixth starter/ long man at the major league level.

    I'd also stretch Chapman to starter, as he's now hopefully learned how to pitch and gotten his feet wet at the major league level.

    That puts my starting rotation as:
    Cueto
    Baker/ Shields/ other trade acquisition
    CJ Wilson/ Roy Oswalt/ Mark Beuhrle/ Adam Wainwright/ Paul Maholm/ Other free agent
    Chapman
    Bailey/ Leake
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  15. #14
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    I will say that whoever the Reds staff member/scout was that said to sign Willis should get a gold start.

    I thought his career was over and done with and thought there was no way he'd make it back to the bigs. I was wrong. He's shown some ability and a lot of moxie (I love that word).

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  16. #15
    Lets Go 'Bird' Hunting The Voice of IH's Avatar
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    Re: Where does Willis fit in the picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Volquez is not "young" anymore. He is 28. (I realize that 28 is still young in absolute terms, but not in baseball terms. He's not a prospect anymore.) Actually, he's only a year younger than Willis.

    Fair enough, but I don't think I am delusional when I say that there would be a team out there willing to take a chance on him, and willing to trade a couple of prospects for him. Think about what they got for Gomes. Something like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I will say that whoever the Reds staff member/scout was that said to sign Willis should get a gold start.
    Does the credit belong to Baker for this? I thought I remembered that it was Baker who wanted to take the chance and sign him.
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