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Thread: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

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    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    My inbox has been flooded with pm's the past week or so with redszoners demanding answers..."TBL...what should we do??? Are we in? Are we out??? Help!!!" Rather than respond to each of you individually, I shall respond to you all collectively.

    Ok. First of all...are we still in this thing? Do the Reds have a chance to win? The answer, sadly, is a resounding "no." The Reds are out of this thing, and it became official after the Mets swept us at home. Don't believe me? Then take the front office's lack of activity at the deadline as a referendum on the season. I am not necessarily angry they did nothing (other than flipping Cordero and Hernandez), but if they truly felt we had a shot at this thing, they would have overpaid for someone. They didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know anything can happen, blah blah blah. It would take a small miracle for a team that's in 4th place in the worst division in baseball, 7.5 games behind the leaders (who went all-in before the season started as well as the trade deadline), that has not demonstrated any ability whatsoever to play consistently good baseball. Save this post if you're one of those "hope springs eternal" people. I will gladly eat the crow if I'm wrong, but I'm not.

    So, if we operate under the assumption that I am correct and we are indeed out of it, this is what needs to happen during the remainder of this frustrating, maddening season.

    1. Move Arroyo from the rotation. DL him with "fatigue" or lingering effects from the mono. Matters not. If we don't DL him, move him to the LeCure role and put LeCure back in the rotation. LeCure has pitched really well in the long relief role and, personally, I'd like to know if that's how he projects or if he can become an effective 4/5 guy. I'd prefer the latter but would bet on the former.

    2. Leave Volquez exactly where he is. He's been pitching better down there. Let him continue to get things together in Louisville and we'll hopefully have a new Volquez in 2012 or, at least, a more attractive trading chip in the off-season.

    3. Try to float Hernandez, Cordero, Renteria and Cairo through waivers and strike a deal for each one who clears. Cairo has proved his worth as a versatile utility guy with a respectable stick. Hernandez has been awesome the entire time he's been a Red and is signed to a very favorable contract, which is why I doubt he clears waivers. Cordero's price tag makes it very possible that he will, however. Renteria should clear. He's playing better and I could definitely see a playoff team finding him to be a useful addition.

    4. (Contingency) IF - if - Hernandez and Cordero clear waivers and are dealt, call up Mesorasco and let he and Hanigan split duties the remainder of the season. Get him some valuable experience before 2012. Install Masset as the closer and see how he handles it. I am not as confident as his abilities in that role as many here, but we'll really only know after he gets his shot. Of course, I am of the belief that a defined "closer" is wholly unnecessary, but that's a completely different discussion.

    5. Frazier needs to get the majority of time at 3rd regardless of Cairo's trade status or Rolen's health. Rolen is done, quite simply and Cairo was never meant to be a starter. I think Frazier can stick but, again, we just have to see.

    6. Ensure Alonso sees plenty of time in left. He'll never be Willie Mays but he at least has to be serviceable. He's a legitimate hitter but he's not going to be playing first with Joey here. He's got a superior bat to Heisey but defensively Heisey is clearly better. Giving him plenty of time in left during the remainder of the season should go a long way towards solving our left field quandary.

    7. Limit Leake's innings. If we were in the thick of the race, I'd not be so bullish on keeping his pitches low, but he's pitched so well this season that I am close to admitting I was wrong about him, and he's undoubtedly in our long-term future plans. No sense in wasting innings now. Pitch him but don't push him.

    8. Cozart and Janish at SS. Cozart needs to be the starter and Janish the backup. Cozart has probably been the highlight of the season for me. I am also happy to see Janish swinging the bat a bit better. If this tandem continues to look good, we may be set at SS for quite a while.

    9. Get Dave Sappelt up here and split the CF starts with Stubbs. My faith that Stubbs will ever be a good leadoff hitter decreases daily. I want someone up here with similar talent to push him. If Sappelt shows he can stick with the big club, then maybe we deal Stubbs in the off-season. Maybe he moves to left next year and hits 6th/7th in the order. Maybe it's not Stubbs Sappelt makes expendable, but Heisey. There's so many redundancies in our outfield right now.

    10. Bring up Boxberger IF Cordero is dealt. As previously stated, I am not supremely confident in Masset, and Boxberger sure as heck looks the part.

    11. Last but not least, send Chapman down and start extending him. Make the guy a freaking starter already. Do this yesterday.

    So, there you have it. I know a lot of my "plan" involves calling up young guys and starting their clock, but, why not? We were reticent to deal these guys for a reason, I assume, so let's see just how many of these prospects should be in our plans for next season.
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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    1. Move Arroyo from the rotation. DL him with "fatigue" or lingering effects from the mono. Matters not. If we don't DL him, move him to the LeCure role and put LeCure back in the rotation. LeCure has pitched really well in the long relief role and, personally, I'd like to know if that's how he projects or if he can become an effective 4/5 guy. I'd prefer the latter but would bet on the former.

    I would like to see them just shut him down and promote up Wood. Tell Bronson they just want him to rest and be ready for 2012 and they want to see what Wood can do here on out. But they won't because of the whole "respect" issue and it would also present an image they are giving up on this season.

    2. Leave Volquez exactly where he is. He's been pitching better down there. Let him continue to get things together in Louisville and we'll hopefully have a new Volquez in 2012 or, at least, a more attractive trading chip in the off-season.

    3. Try to float Hernandez, Cordero, Renteria and Cairo through waivers and strike a deal for each one who clears. Cairo has proved his worth as a versatile utility guy with a respectable stick. Hernandez has been awesome the entire time he's been a Red and is signed to a very favorable contract, which is why I doubt he clears waivers. Cordero's price tag makes it very possible that he will, however. Renteria should clear. He's playing better and I could definitely see a playoff team finding him to be a useful addition.

    I would keep Cairo, you do need that vet who can play multiple positions on your bench. Hernandez never makes it through waviers and I doubt Co-Co would either, plus as I was told by Lance McCalster, we get some sweet draft picks when both leave in the offseason and who doesn't like sweet draft picks.


    5. Frazier needs to get the majority of time at 3rd regardless of Cairo's trade status or Rolen's health. Rolen is done, quite simply and Cairo was never meant to be a starter. I think Frazier can stick but, again, we just have to see.

    A good GM goes to Rolen and tells him they are shutting him down for the rest of the season, then in the offseason they talk buy-out. The Reds then go with Frazier at 3rd rest of way out with Cairo as the backup.

    6. Ensure Alonso sees plenty of time in left. He'll never be Willie Mays but he at least has to be serviceable. He's a legitimate hitter but he's not going to be playing first with Joey here. He's got a superior bat to Heisey but defensively Heisey is clearly better. Giving him plenty of time in left during the remainder of the season should go a long way towards solving our left field quandary.

    To me this is a no brainer, you platoon Yonder and Heisey in LF, with Heisey also giving both Stubbs and Bruce some days off. I release Lewis and bring up Sapplet to see what he can offer also.


    11. Last but not least, send Chapman down and start extending him. Make the guy a freaking starter already. Do this yesterday.

    to me this IS the key move for next season. Send him down now, have him work with Power in the offseason and have him start next year at AAA, and hopefully by early May he will be ready.

    .

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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    My inbox has been flooded with pm's the past week or so with redszoners demanding answers..."TBL...what should we do??? Are we in? Are we out??? Help!!!" Rather than respond to each of you individually, I shall respond to you all collectively.

    Ok. First of all...are we still in this thing? Do the Reds have a chance to win? The answer, sadly, is a resounding "no." The Reds are out of this thing, and it became official after the Mets swept us at home. Don't believe me? Then take the front office's lack of activity at the deadline as a referendum on the season. I am not necessarily angry they did nothing (other than flipping Cordero and Hernandez), but if they truly felt we had a shot at this thing, they would have overpaid for someone. They didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know anything can happen, blah blah blah. It would take a small miracle for a team that's in 4th place in the worst division in baseball, 7.5 games behind the leaders (who went all-in before the season started as well as the trade deadline), that has not demonstrated any ability whatsoever to play consistently good baseball. Save this post if you're one of those "hope springs eternal" people. I will gladly eat the crow if I'm wrong, but I'm not.

    So, if we operate under the assumption that I am correct and we are indeed out of it, this is what needs to happen during the remainder of this frustrating, maddening season.

    1. Move Arroyo from the rotation. DL him with "fatigue" or lingering effects from the mono. Matters not. If we don't DL him, move him to the LeCure role and put LeCure back in the rotation. LeCure has pitched really well in the long relief role and, personally, I'd like to know if that's how he projects or if he can become an effective 4/5 guy. I'd prefer the latter but would bet on the former.

    Agree.

    2. Leave Volquez exactly where he is. He's been pitching better down there. Let him continue to get things together in Louisville and we'll hopefully have a new Volquez in 2012 or, at least, a more attractive trading chip in the off-season.

    Agree.

    3. Try to float Hernandez, Cordero, Renteria and Cairo through waivers and strike a deal for each one who clears. Cairo has proved his worth as a versatile utility guy with a respectable stick. Hernandez has been awesome the entire time he's been a Red and is signed to a very favorable contract, which is why I doubt he clears waivers. Cordero's price tag makes it very possible that he will, however. Renteria should clear. He's playing better and I could definitely see a playoff team finding him to be a useful addition.

    Would not move Cairo. He is cheap, produces, is a good leader, and is signed through next year.

    4. (Contingency) IF - if - Hernandez and Cordero clear waivers and are dealt, call up Mesorasco and let he and Hanigan split duties the remainder of the season. Get him some valuable experience before 2012. Install Masset as the closer and see how he handles it. I am not as confident as his abilities in that role as many here, but we'll really only know after he gets his shot. Of course, I am of the belief that a defined "closer" is wholly unnecessary, but that's a completely different discussion.

    Would not put Masset in closer role. I would put Chapman there (see further down on page as to why).

    5. Frazier needs to get the majority of time at 3rd regardless of Cairo's trade status or Rolen's health. Rolen is done, quite simply and Cairo was never meant to be a starter. I think Frazier can stick but, again, we just have to see.

    Agree.

    6. Ensure Alonso sees plenty of time in left. He'll never be Willie Mays but he at least has to be serviceable. He's a legitimate hitter but he's not going to be playing first with Joey here. He's got a superior bat to Heisey but defensively Heisey is clearly better. Giving him plenty of time in left during the remainder of the season should go a long way towards solving our left field quandary.

    Agree.

    7. Limit Leake's innings. If we were in the thick of the race, I'd not be so bullish on keeping his pitches low, but he's pitched so well this season that I am close to admitting I was wrong about him, and he's undoubtedly in our long-term future plans. No sense in wasting innings now. Pitch him but don't push him.

    Agree.

    8. Cozart and Janish at SS. Cozart needs to be the starter and Janish the backup. Cozart has probably been the highlight of the season for me. I am also happy to see Janish swinging the bat a bit better. If this tandem continues to look good, we may be set at SS for quite a while.

    I would play Janish once a week.

    9. Get Dave Sappelt up here and split the CF starts with Stubbs. My faith that Stubbs will ever be a good leadoff hitter decreases daily. I want someone up here with similar talent to push him. If Sappelt shows he can stick with the big club, then maybe we deal Stubbs in the off-season. Maybe he moves to left next year and hits 6th/7th in the order. Maybe it's not Stubbs Sappelt makes expendable, but Heisey. There's so many redundancies in our outfield right now.

    Agree. I would also consider getting creative and hitting Sap leadoff and Stubbs 9th (yes, flipping the P and 8 hole).

    10. Bring up Boxberger IF Cordero is dealt. As previously stated, I am not supremely confident in Masset, and Boxberger sure as heck looks the part.

    I'd bring him up regardless.

    11. Last but not least, send Chapman down and start extending him. Make the guy a freaking starter already. Do this yesterday.

    I'd let Chapman close if Cordero is dealt. I'd move Boxberger into a set-up role with Masset to get experience. I also think that Chapman can be spread out during the offseason and he is still young and learning, so it could mess with his head if you move him down when he is pitching so well.
    Just my thoughts..

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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    "Hernandez never makes it through waviers and I doubt Co-Co would either, plus as I was told by Lance McCalster, we get some sweet draft picks when both leave in the offseason and who doesn't like sweet draft picks."

    You would have to offer them arbitration and have them turn it down to get the draft picks. They probably wouldn't turn it down given their stats from this year and their ages is the problem.
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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    I would keep Cairo, you do need that vet who can play multiple positions on your bench. Hernandez never makes it through waviers and I doubt Co-Co would either, plus as I was told by Lance McCalster, we get some sweet draft picks when both leave in the offseason and who doesn't like sweet draft picks.

    The sweet draft pick thing is not actually true. The only way you get draft picks is if after the season your offer the player arbitration, they decline and sign with another team.

    The significant risk you run is if they accept arbitration then you are stuck paying whatever the arbitration hearing agrees on for one year.

    There is no way the Reds offer Cordero arbitration and risk paying him 10million plus for another season. Hernandez I think will be 50/50.

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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    I don't think the season is lost for sure; I use the 1 Game back per week rule - and Reds are very close to being on the wrong side of it. However, I do agree with all of your suggested moves and simply add "replace manager" to the list.

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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    I would agree with all of your points, and there are a few I couldn't have said better myself. Chapman definitely needs to become a starter. He has started to take a little off the fastball, which should help his control (clearly has) and his stamina (that is yet to be seen).

    I also strongly agree that Sappelt needs to be brought up ASAP. Stubbs definitely has lead off speed, but a lead off batter shouldn't lead the league in strike outs. I've been to a handful of Bats games this year, and Sappelt hasn't disappointed yet. As you said, he has a similar skill set, it can't do anything but help. If nothing else, it will push Stubbs to become a better player.

    The last point that I will comment on is Cozart. I have been overly impressed with Cozart all year, in AAA and since his call up. He should clearly be the starter once he is off the DL. I know he has had limited at bats, but he is a much better answer than Janish. Renteria is a great player to have in the club house and in clutch situations, but he is obviously not the SS of the future for the Reds.

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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    In order to trade them they have to be claimed on waivers.

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    Re: What I Would Do to Finish the Season

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    My inbox has been flooded with pm's the past week or so with redszoners demanding answers..."TBL...what should we do??? Are we in? Are we out??? Help!!!" Rather than respond to each of you individually, I shall respond to you all collectively.

    Ok. First of all...are we still in this thing? Do the Reds have a chance to win? The answer, sadly, is a resounding "no." The Reds are out of this thing, and it became official after the Mets swept us at home. Don't believe me? Then take the front office's lack of activity at the deadline as a referendum on the season. I am not necessarily angry they did nothing (other than flipping Cordero and Hernandez), but if they truly felt we had a shot at this thing, they would have overpaid for someone. They didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know anything can happen, blah blah blah. It would take a small miracle for a team that's in 4th place in the worst division in baseball, 7.5 games behind the leaders (who went all-in before the season started as well as the trade deadline), that has not demonstrated any ability whatsoever to play consistently good baseball. Save this post if you're one of those "hope springs eternal" people. I will gladly eat the crow if I'm wrong, but I'm not.

    So, if we operate under the assumption that I am correct and we are indeed out of it, this is what needs to happen during the remainder of this frustrating, maddening season.

    1. Move Arroyo from the rotation. DL him with "fatigue" or lingering effects from the mono. Matters not. If we don't DL him, move him to the LeCure role and put LeCure back in the rotation. LeCure has pitched really well in the long relief role and, personally, I'd like to know if that's how he projects or if he can become an effective 4/5 guy. I'd prefer the latter but would bet on the former.

    Agree about shutting Arroyo down the rest of the season. But I'd rather see Wood.


    2. Leave Volquez exactly where he is. He's been pitching better down there. Let him continue to get things together in Louisville and we'll hopefully have a new Volquez in 2012 or, at least, a more attractive trading chip in the off-season.

    Agree

    3. Try to float Hernandez, Cordero, Renteria and Cairo through waivers and strike a deal for each one who clears. Cairo has proved his worth as a versatile utility guy with a respectable stick. Hernandez has been awesome the entire time he's been a Red and is signed to a very favorable contract, which is why I doubt he clears waivers. Cordero's price tag makes it very possible that he will, however. Renteria should clear. He's playing better and I could definitely see a playoff team finding him to be a useful addition.

    I want to keep Cairo. Good contract, good utility player, good teammate and signed through next season. I would send the other three through waivers though and see what happens.

    4. (Contingency) IF - if - Hernandez and Cordero clear waivers and are dealt, call up Mesorasco and let he and Hanigan split duties the remainder of the season. Get him some valuable experience before 2012. Install Masset as the closer and see how he handles it. I am not as confident as his abilities in that role as many here, but we'll really only know after he gets his shot. Of course, I am of the belief that a defined "closer" is wholly unnecessary, but that's a completely different discussion.

    Agree. Although Masset scares me at times.

    5. Frazier needs to get the majority of time at 3rd regardless of Cairo's trade status or Rolen's health. Rolen is done, quite simply and Cairo was never meant to be a starter. I think Frazier can stick but, again, we just have to see.

    I hope Rolen retires, but Fay said he won't.


    6. Ensure Alonso sees plenty of time in left. He'll never be Willie Mays but he at least has to be serviceable. He's a legitimate hitter but he's not going to be playing first with Joey here. He's got a superior bat to Heisey but defensively Heisey is clearly better. Giving him plenty of time in left during the remainder of the season should go a long way towards solving our left field quandary.

    7. Limit Leake's innings. If we were in the thick of the race, I'd not be so bullish on keeping his pitches low, but he's pitched so well this season that I am close to admitting I was wrong about him, and he's undoubtedly in our long-term future plans. No sense in wasting innings now. Pitch him but don't push him.

    8. Cozart and Janish at SS. Cozart needs to be the starter and Janish the backup. Cozart has probably been the highlight of the season for me. I am also happy to see Janish swinging the bat a bit better. If this tandem continues to look good, we may be set at SS for quite a while.

    9. Get Dave Sappelt up here and split the CF starts with Stubbs. My faith that Stubbs will ever be a good leadoff hitter decreases daily. I want someone up here with similar talent to push him. If Sappelt shows he can stick with the big club, then maybe we deal Stubbs in the off-season. Maybe he moves to left next year and hits 6th/7th in the order. Maybe it's not Stubbs Sappelt makes expendable, but Heisey. There's so many redundancies in our outfield right now.

    10. Bring up Boxberger IF Cordero is dealt. As previously stated, I am not supremely confident in Masset, and Boxberger sure as heck looks the part.

    11. Last but not least, send Chapman down and start extending him. Make the guy a freaking starter already. Do this yesterday.

    So, there you have it. I know a lot of my "plan" involves calling up young guys and starting their clock, but, why not? We were reticent to deal these guys for a reason, I assume, so let's see just how many of these prospects should be in our plans for next season.
    I want to see Sappelt leading off for awhile. All the guy does is hit and get on base.
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