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Thread: What am I listening to? (Part II)

  1. #451
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    I don't understand the fascination with indy. . .they're almost as homogeneous as power metal.
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  3. #452
    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    I've never understood the Authentic vs. Inauthentic argument. The only truly inauthentic band I can think of is Milli Vanilli. After that, I'm not sure what the term means. Was Dylan inauthentic? He loved fabricating stories about himself and making his early life more quirky. As for the White Stripes, maybe Jack White is a strutting, preening guy. If so, isn't he being very authentic to who he is? To give a baseball example, if Yasiel Puig starting acting like David Eckstein, I would lose interest. If Votto starting acting like Carlos Gomez, I would be skeptical. Authenticity is one of those music terms that gets thrown around and I'm not sure we know exactly what it means and very often have no way of proving it.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  4. #453
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I've never understood the Authentic vs. Inauthentic argument. The only truly inauthentic band I can think of is Milli Vanilli. After that, I'm not sure what the term means. Was Dylan inauthentic? He loved fabricating stories about himself and making his early life more quirky. As for the White Stripes, maybe Jack White is a strutting, preening guy. If so, isn't he being very authentic to who he is? To give a baseball example, if Yasiel Puig starting acting like David Eckstein, I would lose interest. If Votto starting acting like Carlos Gomez, I would be skeptical. Authenticity is one of those music terms that gets thrown around and I'm not sure we know exactly what it means and very often have no way of proving it.
    To me it's a very intangible thing and probably 100% a question of taste. Therefore unquantifiable and hard to use as holding real weight in any argument.

    It's particularly hard for me because I actually do like showmen, and have strong feelings about the need for stylized affects in all art forms (I hammer this home to students all the time, believe it or not). I think in the case of Jack White it may be the disconnect between his words and his stage presence -- particularly his citing of the blues as his major influence, as mentioned before. That really rubbed me the wrong way. As affected as he was as a performer in that band, it veered (to me) as so pretentious as to be almost making fun of the blues. He also really made a strong effort to talk himself up as such a serious musician, as someone beholden to and driven by music above all else...and then he had that ridiculous little sideshow sibling story going...and going and going and going. That struck me as totally disingenuous and tired.

    It could also have been a question of timing. The White Stripes exploded at a time when garage rock was enjoying a renaissance, and for them of all bands to be cited at that time as the best and most accessible...well, it just seemed to me that they had the best publicist or whatever. They were fine, I can see how the stripped-down musical aesthetic was appealing, but their songs were not THAT good. If they were to hit now, and not be the victims of such extraordinary publicity as hailed as the saviors of rock or whatever, I might like them better.

    I have not minded Jack White in his other bands. As I said before, I think he is talented. It was the whole package of The White Stripes that never gelled for me.
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  5. #454
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord View Post
    I don't understand the fascination with indy. . .they're almost as homogeneous as power metal.
    What's exactly indy though?

    The Twee sound? The sloppy sound? The Noisepop sound? The banjo scene? Wounded singer songwriter? Powerpop?

    Lots of labels out there, for pretty much anything.

  6. #455
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    To me it's a very intangible thing and probably 100% a question of taste. Therefore unquantifiable and hard to use as holding real weight in any argument.

    It's particularly hard for me because I actually do like showmen, and have strong feelings about the need for stylized affects in all art forms (I hammer this home to students all the time, believe it or not). I think in the case of Jack White it may be the disconnect between his words and his stage presence -- particularly his citing of the blues as his major influence, as mentioned before. That really rubbed me the wrong way. As affected as he was as a performer in that band, it veered (to me) as so pretentious as to be almost making fun of the blues. He also really made a strong effort to talk himself up as such a serious musician, as someone beholden to and driven by music above all else...and then he had that ridiculous little sideshow sibling story going...and going and going and going. That struck me as totally disingenuous and tired.

    It could also have been a question of timing. The White Stripes exploded at a time when garage rock was enjoying a renaissance, and for them of all bands to be cited at that time as the best and most accessible...well, it just seemed to me that they had the best publicist or whatever. They were fine, I can see how the stripped-down musical aesthetic was appealing, but their songs were not THAT good. If they were to hit now, and not be the victims of such extraordinary publicity as hailed as the saviors of rock or whatever, I might like them better.

    I have not minded Jack White in his other bands. As I said before, I think he is talented. It was the whole package of The White Stripes that never gelled for me.
    I love people who love music. I do.

    This is just a great post, because only someone who loves music could write it.

    It's why I love bashing bands I hate- even if I end up liking them later like Dylan, Zeppelin, Nirvana (I think it's something against rabid fan bases). It's an absolute joy piecing together an "argument" that is subjectively based...and when you can't come up with a concrete idea, you just say "Radiohead sounds like someone took a lawnmower and played it against a violin."

    There's a little record store clerk in all of us.

  7. #456
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    I've never understood the Authentic vs. Inauthentic argument.
    This can pretty simply be characterized as Art vs. Commerce for me...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    This can pretty simply be characterized as Art vs. Commerce for me...
    Even that can be hard to recognize. The Monkees are an obvious example, but so many other bands could fit either bill.

    I tend to agree with Dom. Music is so taste driven and the reasons people like/dislike bands are strange/varied/inconsistent. For example, I am not a big fan of the Doors. All I hear are drugs and Jim Morrison seems like the kind of guy whose sole reason to exist was to steal and bed your girlfriend. Those are totally irrational and subjective things. I like rock organs (like Elvis Costello), I like bands who used alot of drugs (almost all of them), and I like insufferable guys like Jim Morrison (too many to name, but everything I've ever heard about John Lennon seems to fit this category) and yet I don't like the Doors. Is that rational? No. Is my feeling real? Yes.

    I have a friend who soured on Arcade Fire after going to a concert and being surrounded by obnoxious frat guys. As if that was the fault of the band. How dare they make music that appeals to more than just his demographic.

    I do have some very broad, general things I tend to lean towards. I am a sound guy more than a lyrics guy (but I love Randy Newman), I like innovative bands (but love stripped down rock like the Black Keys), I love upbeat music (but prefer Beck's Sea Changes/Mutations/Morning Phase to his more exuberant stuff), I like subtly (but love most rap). None of this makes any sense, but I know what I like and know what I don't like. Oh, and I'm right...
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    Even that can be hard to recognize. The Monkees are an obvious example, but so many other bands could fit either bill.
    What's an example of an artist you are unsure of? I think it's usually pretty easy to distinguish...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I love when people debate music. You guys are getting me in the mood to bash Pavement and Radiohead.

    Raisor loves that...
    You leave SM out of this. Spiral Stairs is fair game.

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  13. #460
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    You leave SM out of this. Spiral Stairs is fair game.
    No. without Spiral Steve is insufferable

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    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I love people who love music. I do.

    This is just a great post, because only someone who loves music could write it.

    It's why I love bashing bands I hate- even if I end up liking them later like Dylan, Zeppelin, Nirvana (I think it's something against rabid fan bases). It's an absolute joy piecing together an "argument" that is subjectively based...and when you can't come up with a concrete idea, you just say "Radiohead sounds like someone took a lawnmower and played it against a violin."

    There's a little record store clerk in all of us.
    That's a nice way of saying "obsessive" And I appreciate that.

    There's no way for me to put this down without sounding at least a little pretentious, but it's extremely important to me to quantify opinions across art forms. I believe very strongly in technique, and that emotional impact of any art is limited without at least an understanding of technique (whether one chooses to use it or abandon it). But although I try, I have a harder time backing up my opinions on music than I do for any other art form except maybe visual art. No doubt in huge part because I'm not a musician.

    For what it's worth, the Beck album is growing on me. The first half of it, anyway.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    No. without Spiral Steve is insufferable
    Correlation doesn't equal causation. Giving Spiral credit for Pavement is the music equivalent of catcher's ERA. (This is all a thinly veiled plea for admission into RaisorZone)

  17. #463
    Member improbus's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    What's an example of an artist you are unsure of? I think it's usually pretty easy to distinguish...
    Later career U2 immediately comes to mind.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  18. #464
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    That's a nice way of saying "obsessive" And I appreciate that.

    There's no way for me to put this down without sounding at least a little pretentious, but it's extremely important to me to quantify opinions across art forms. I believe very strongly in technique, and that emotional impact of any art is limited without at least an understanding of technique (whether one chooses to use it or abandon it). But although I try, I have a harder time backing up my opinions on music than I do for any other art form except maybe visual art. No doubt in huge part because I'm not a musician.

    For what it's worth, the Beck album is growing on me. The first half of it, anyway.
    You can't really back up an opinion on music to someone who doesn't agree.

    Because I'll tell you Taylor Swift is the best pop song writer of the past decade, you'll tell me no way, but then you'll heap praise on "Call Me Maybe."

    It's why it's so much fun. You can't really lose an argument on music- you put it out there why you like it and because it's subjective, it can't lose.

    I'll tell you Jimmy Page is the best guitarist of all time. Someone else may say Hendrix. Sammy Hagar in Van Halen didn't bother me. I may only like half of Bob Dylan's stuff but I think that qualifies him as a top 5 artist. For being a boy band, Hanson wasn't half bad. I love Nirvana, I think they benefit from Cobain's death. Nobody ever got to see the decline, which is a big deal. I have Radiohead*,Pavement and Dinosaur Jr. songs on my ipod, I like them, and I think their fans are insufferable.

    And none of what I just said can be defeated with any type of logic that I have to bow to.

    These threads are great because it shows the power that music holds over us. I just got back from an elementary school talent show where the entire school was singing along with the performances. I had goosebumps seeing a little girl singing Joan Jett (honestly, is there anyone cooler?)....another girl sang "Let it Go." Rihanna, that "Happy" song....and we're all in this little auditorium singing along.

    And here we are in this tread debating and sharing our tastes. It brings us together. It's my "baseball" anymore. I have it on at my desk, my workouts, the car....it's everywhere and I love it. And I love to see this board talk about it, too.

    Great thread.

    *For you Walking Dead fans, Norman Reedus is in the "Fake Plastic Trees" video. That is cool.
    Last edited by Dom Heffner; 05-16-2014 at 06:14 PM.

  19. #465
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: What am I listening to? (Part II)

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    Later career U2 immediately comes to mind.
    Later career anybody, for the most part. The creative fires smolder at some point. Nobody goes to watch Eddie Murphy's standup anymore, either.

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    *BaseClogger* (05-18-2014)


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