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Thread: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

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    Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Assuming Jocketty declines CoCo's option -- he is 37 with a declining k-rate, are we going to be in the market for a big closer?

    Here's the list from MLBtraderumors.com:

    Heath Bell (34)
    Jonathan Broxton (28)
    Matt Capps (28)
    Frank Francisco (32)
    Brad Lidge (35) - $12.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
    Joe Nathan (37) - $12.5MM club option with a $2MM buyout
    Jonathan Papelbon (31)
    Jon Rauch (33) - $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout
    Francisco Rodriguez (30)
    Rafael Soriano (32) - $11MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout
    Jose Valverde (34) - $9MM club option, no buyout

    Papelbon and K-Rod jump out but will cost big money. I'm guessing the consesus on here will be to not pay big money for "70 innings". But the consesus seems to also lean to sticking Chapman in the rotation.

    Of course there are always ways to get creative, as long as it doesn't involve Masset. Is Lecure a sleeper?
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    I sure as heck hope not. I agree that Chapman should be given a chance to start. But in my mind, closer is not a position, it's a label. Frankly, I don't care who gets the saves. I just want to make sure the bullpen has at least 4 very solid relievers to use in close games.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    I hope he pays for an opener.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Mr. Underhill signalhome's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I sure as heck hope not. I agree that Chapman should be given a chance to start. But in my mind, closer is not a position, it's a label. Frankly, I don't care who gets the saves. I just want to make sure the bullpen has at least 4 very solid relievers to use in close games.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I hope he pays for an opener.
    Yep.

  6. #5
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Didn't we once project Bill Bray as a potential future closer?
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Paying big dollars for a closer is the worst investment a small market team can make.

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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    But in my mind, closer is not a position, it's a label.

    Saves are a crappy statistic but I don't think closers are overrated. Champs always have them.

    But our opinions of closers is irrelevant. Most GM's are not going to start the year without tabbing someone as a closer. I
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Saves are a crappy statistic but I don't think closers are overrated. Champs always have them.

    But our opinions of closers is irrelevant. Most GM's are not going to start the year without tabbing someone as a closer. I
    All teams have a closer. The best teams tend to have the best players everywhere. The best position players. The best starters. The best relievers.

    The question isn't whether or not we should have high quality relievers at the back end of the pen. It's whether or not Walt should pay a lot of money to somebody who has accrued "saves" in his career.

    "Closers" routinely get paid double what an equally effective, equally valuable set up man gets. So if Walt decides to spend money to improve our relief corps, I hope it's not on a closer -- because you end up spending just as much on the label as you do on the arm.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    I'd be interested to see if a guy like Nathan could be had on the cheap. Otherwise I'd look for a middle relief guy to convert into a closer.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Paying big dollars for a closer is the worst investment a small market team can make.
    Let's hope we learned that from the last time we did it.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  12. #11
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    I have a feeling they will decline CoCo's option only to bring him back at a lower price
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    I have a feeling they will decline CoCo's option only to bring him back at a lower price
    That would be the key. I'd consider it if the price is low enough.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    I find Broxton intriguing. He's had an awful year, but that may bode well for his asking price. Prior to 2011, he's been absolute stud. One would think he is fixable, but I don't know.

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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Saves are a crappy statistic but I don't think closers are overrated. Champs always have them.
    Champs always have closers becuase every team has a closer. Goos or bad, someone is the closer.

    Champs sometimes have closers who are untested or inexperienced. Or bad.

    Wainwright took over for a injured Izzy and closed out the world series.

    Kim in 2001 horribly blew 2 games in the world series, but Arizona won anyway.

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    Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Champs always have closers becuase every team has a closer. Goos or bad, someone is the closer.
    Fair enough. Let me re-state it. Champs often have dominant closers.

    I'm not a fan of the Lee Smith/Jeff Reardon-type save-mongers. But I'm a huge fan of dominating closers. During regulation they lift teams above their pythag then dominate the post-season play and finally deliver Championships.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle


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