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Thread: What's with the Reds?

  1. #1
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    What's with the Reds?

    The Reds aren't just on a bad streak. They are playing terrible ball. The team seems to be falling apart IMO. Even the defense isn't any good lately, and I'm not just pointing to the new rookies.

    Are they just distracted recognizing they are out of the race?

    Has the manager lost his touch with the players?

    Are there real problems behind the scenes?

    What's going on?

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  3. #2
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    They've quit. They look like from the first pitch they expect to lose. No one wants to be there now. It all comes from the lack of leadership in the clubhouse.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
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  4. #3
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Depression. They'll bounce back this year, but it's really hard to play when you know you have no chance the win (division). I know they're supposed to be professionals, but they're also human. I don't think they've quit, but the adrenaline is certainly gone.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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  5. #4
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    I don't think they've quit. I just think it's a team full of individuals that know they're not currently good enough to win. And that will kill morale, especially coming off a division winning season.

  6. #5
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    I don't think they've quit. The flaws have been exposed now. The team didn't add pieces to sure up weaknesses and now the weaknesses are being exploited. On offense, team's basically just don't let Votto beat them, Bruce chokes from trying to do too much and everyone else is a bad bet (at least against RHP). The Rotation is iffy and wore out the pen in the first half with its numerous drubbings and short outings. The pen has decent arms as pens go, but they're (Masset, Ondrusek and to a lesser extent Bray) used up IMO. Arredondo is in that "first year back so I'm still kind of crappy" stage. Lecure is due to turn back into a pumpkin at anytime if he hasn't already.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #6
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I don't think they've quit. I just think it's a team full of individuals that know they're not currently good enough to win. And that will kill morale, especially coming off a division winning season.
    I'm not referring specifically to your post, but I keep hearing this nonsense in the media about how this team doesn't have the talent to win. I don't think there is any question this team had the talent to win the division in 2011. Basically, the exact same team DID win it last year. So, something else went horribly wrong. Management being too slow to recognizing areas of need, Dusty Baker maybe... but it wasn't the talent. This team has every reason to believe it stands a good chance of winning in 2012, so long as the front office has learned from 2011 and do not completely sit on their hands again.

    Tearing the core of this talented team apart would be a colossal mistake, and I actually think radio heads like Mo Eggar and Lance McAllister would be in favor of something like that.

  8. #7
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    I'm not referring specifically to your post, but I keep hearing this nonsense in the media about how this team doesn't have the talent to win. I don't think there is any question this team had the talent to win the division in 2011. Basically, the exact same team DID win it last year. So, something else went horribly wrong. Management being too slow to recognizing areas of need, Dusty Baker maybe... but it wasn't the talent. This team has every reason to believe it stands a good chance of winning in 2012, so long as the front office has learned from 2011 and do not completely sit on their hands again.

    Tearing the core of this talented team apart would be a colossal mistake, and I actually think radio heads like Mo Eggar and Lance McAllister would be in favor of something like that.
    I agree that Dusty and management and other areas have hindered this team in 2011, but I disagree that they had the talent to win it. 2011 is a different year than 2010. Arroyo is a different player. So is Scott Rolen. So was Jonny Gomes. So was Ryan Hanigan. The team had and has enough talent to compete, but in hindsight, the Cardinals and Brewers were just better. More talented. More stars. Just better baseball teams. This team's biggest mistake was thinking this team was good enough, with no changes, to repeat.

  9. #8
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Take a look at the team's stats. Outside of Votto, Cueto and a few arms in the pen, no one's stand out as being anything but slightly above average at best. Folks can make the claim all they want about the hoard of talent the Reds have, but the numbers this season say otherwise.
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  10. #9
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    Take a look at the team's stats. Outside of Votto, Cueto and a few arms in the pen, no one's stand out as being anything but slightly above average at best. Folks can make the claim all they want about the hoard of talent the Reds have, but the numbers this season say otherwise.
    Agreed. I don't see talent in left. I don't see it at shortstop. I don't see it at third. Center field, right field, who knows what you're going to get on a given day or in a given series. The pitching staff has righted itself, but guys like Volquez and Wood haven't met their expectations for various reasons. And the bullpen has done a decent job, but outside of Chapman, how many live, exciting arms are there?

    The team is still in decent shape moving forward. But only if this organization makes clear efforts to improve certain areas. They absolutely have to be proactive this offseason. To be passive once again would be to court disaster.

  11. #10
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    1971, redux.

    They need to find Morgan, Geronimo, Menke, Armbrister and Billingham this off season.

    Lee May, Tommy Helms and Jimmy Stewart gotta go.

  12. #11
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    everyone has an opinion on this. i believe the team needs an infusion of talent as well as some sort of shakeup if they want to win in 2012. same GM. same manager. same players. that has been the formula for the last 1.5 years. i don't think it will work going forward. no one should be off limits as the team tries to improve.
    .

  13. #12
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    1971, redux.

    They need to find Morgan, Geronimo, Menke, Armbrister and Billingham this off season.

    Lee May, Tommy Helms and Jimmy Stewart gotta go.
    I've seen this a few times and I get the analogy, but that 1971 went until 1975 before they got their act together to the point of winning it all. This team doesn't have that long. Rolen is already declining and will be gone by the end of 2012 in any event. Phillips is gone after 2012. Votto probably after 2013. Rolen may be declining, but those three have been All Stars the last two seasons. I've never been a huge fan of Hernandez, but he's been pretty effective for 2010 and 2011 and he'll be gone after this season. When those guys go, this is just another team of struggling players. Mesoraco, Frazier, Alonso and Sappelt may be promising kids, but they aren't really upgrades. Its not reallly likely that the team will get 3 All Stars, one of whom is an MVP caliber player, from that group. They need to go All in for 2012. After that, the odds get longer IMO and when Votto leaves this will be just another team full of iffy kids and flawed players.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Alonso is an elite hitter right now, but even if the Reds traded Votto for a haul at other positions Yonder is still a horrendous first baseman. Alonso is a professional DH. I can't imagine him developing as even an average player at any defensive position at the major league level. He gets discombobulated by lazy fly balls, and would not know the right base to throw to with a compass. It would be embarassing if he were not such a good hitter.

  15. #14
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I've seen this a few times and I get the analogy, but that 1971 went until 1975 before they got their act together to the point of winning it all. This team doesn't have that long. Rolen is already declining and will be gone by the end of 2012 in any event. Phillips is gone after 2012. Votto probably after 2013. Rolen may be declining, but those three have been All Stars the last two seasons. I've never been a huge fan of Hernandez, but he's been pretty effective for 2010 and 2011 and he'll be gone after this season. When those guys go, this is just another team of struggling players. Mesoraco, Frazier, Alonso and Sappelt may be promising kids, but they aren't really upgrades. Its not reallly likely that the team will get 3 All Stars, one of whom is an MVP caliber player, from that group. They need to go All in for 2012. After that, the odds get longer IMO and when Votto leaves this will be just another team full of iffy kids and flawed players.
    Should the Reds explore what they could get for Joey this winter? They may not have an opportunity like this for quite a while.

  16. #15
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What's with the Reds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    Should the Reds explore what they could get for Joey this winter? They may not have an opportunity like this for quite a while.
    No. Elite players in their prime who can be a foundation for a championship team don't come around often. They should go hard to win it all while he's here. Once he's gone the ship will have sailed IMO,
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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