Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Who gets the win?

  1. #1
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    Who gets the win?

    From BR. Dig it:

    In Cincinnati's 8-7 win over the Cubs, reliever Nick Masset was credited as the winning pitcher, according to both MLB and ESPN online. Was that decision correct?

    Masset came on in the bottom of the 7th with a 1-run lead, 2 outs and 2 on. The first batter doubled, tying the game. Masset intentionally walked the next man, then let in the tiebreaker on a wild pitch, before recording his only out. The Reds went ahead in their next at-bat. Aroldis Chapman struck out all 3 in the 8th, and Francisco Cordero pitched the 9th for the save.
    Whaddya think?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    26,509

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Does it matter?

    Sorry.

  4. #3
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,977

    Re: Who gets the win?

    It is the official scorer's discretion, right?

  5. #4
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,389

    Re: Who gets the win?

    No. It's only the official scores decision if the starter leaves before 5 innings with the lead.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  6. #5
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mason, OH
    Posts
    12,134

    Re: Who gets the win?

    He was the pitcher of record when the Reds took the lead. Simple as that.

    I've seen it often happen where a closer blows a save only to have his team come back and take the lead and get him the win. W's can sometime be pretty ugly.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  7. #6
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    He was the pitcher of record when the Reds took the lead. Simple as that.

    I've seen it often happen where a closer blows a save only to have his team come back and take the lead and get him the win. W's can sometime be pretty ugly.
    Yep I think it's a rather open-and-shut case. One could argue it's not right, but that's the rule. Masset was most certainly the winning pitcher.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,581

    Re: Who gets the win?

    I may be wrong, but the official scorer has the discretion to award the win to another pitcher when the pitcher of record is brief or ineffectual.

    Edit - rule 10.17 (c) - official scorer doesn't have to give the win to a reliever who is ineffective in a brief appearance if a subsequent reliever was effective. Not quoting exactly, just paraphrasing.

    I think Chapman could have been awarded the win today. But this rule is seldom applied.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-07-2011 at 09:23 PM.

  9. #8
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I may be wrong, but the official scorer has the discretion to award the win to another pitcher when the pitcher of record is brief or ineffectual.

    Edit - rule 10.17 (c) - official scorer doesn't have to give the win to a reliever who is ineffective in a brief appearance if a subsequent reliever was effective. Not quoting exactly, just paraphrasing.

    I think Chapman could have been awarded the win today. But this rule is seldom applied.
    There is some wiggle room for the official scorer if a relief pitcher pitches ineffectively and another relief pitcher succeeds him effectively. You're right about that. I just meant that by rule, Masset is still the guy in line to get the win unless the official scorer decides to use discretion.

    Generally speaking, if Masset had been charged with the run(s), Chapman probably would have been credited with the win. But because, despite Masset's ineffectiveness, he was not charged with the go-ahead runs for the Cubs, the scorer probably gave him the benefit of the doubt.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,581

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    There is some wiggle room for the official scorer if a relief pitcher pitches ineffectively and another relief pitcher succeeds him effectively. You're right about that. I just meant that by rule, Masset is still the guy in line to get the win unless the official scorer decides to use discretion.

    Generally speaking, if Masset had been charged with the run(s), Chapman probably would have been credited with the win. But because, despite Masset's ineffectiveness, he was not charged with the go-ahead runs for the Cubs, the scorer probably gave him the benefit of the doubt.
    Masset and Ondrusek better start pitching better or they will be getting their future wins at AAA.

  11. #10
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,977

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    No. It's only the official scores decision if the starter leaves before 5 innings with the lead.
    What about the rule Kc61 cited above?

  12. #11
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,348

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I may be wrong, but the official scorer has the discretion to award the win to another pitcher when the pitcher of record is brief or ineffectual.

    Edit - rule 10.17 (c) - official scorer doesn't have to give the win to a reliever who is ineffective in a brief appearance if a subsequent reliever was effective. Not quoting exactly, just paraphrasing.

    I think Chapman could have been awarded the win today. But this rule is seldom applied.
    Has anyone ever seen this applied? Ever?

    The rules regarding who gets a win and how earned runs are credited need to be re-addressed if those stats are to maintain any meaning.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  13. #12
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,977

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Has anyone ever seen this applied? Ever?

    The rules regarding who gets a win and how earned runs are credited need to be re-addressed if those stats are to maintain any meaning.
    I personally haven't seen the rule applied, but it does exist, and should be used more often if you ask me.

  14. #13
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,642

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Has anyone ever seen this applied? Ever?

    The rules regarding who gets a win and how earned runs are credited need to be re-addressed if those stats are to maintain any meaning.
    It was applied in a Reds game a few years ago -- I think it was Osvaldo Fernandez who came and gave up the runs only to see the team come back and take the lead in the next half inning.

    ETA: This was the game -- http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...00108050.shtml -- Fernandez came into the game in the 7th inning with the Reds leading 8-7 and promptly gave up two runs to make the score 9-8 San Diego. The Reds came back in the top of the 8th to score two more runs with Fernandez still as the pitcher of record to take the lead 10-9. Danny Graves came in to pitch the 8th and 9th and was credited with the win instead of the save by the official scorer due to Fernandez being judged as "ineffective."
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 08-07-2011 at 09:46 PM.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  15. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,649

    Re: Who gets the win?

    The rule is used occasionally.

    This was the perfect time to use it, as Champan pitched great, and Masett was ineffective.

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,649

    Re: Who gets the win?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Yep I think it's a rather open-and-shut case. One could argue it's not right, but that's the rule. Masset was most certainly the winning pitcher.
    You don't always have to be right you know.

    It was clear to the whole world that when you posted this that you were unaware of the rule that allowed a subsequent releif pitcher who was not the pitcher of record to be awarded the win in certain circumstances.

    All of a sudden you claimed that of course there is some wiggle room.

    "but that's the rule" doesn't suggest any wiggle room.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25