Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season????

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    373

    Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season????

    posted tonight on mlbtraderumors:

    The Reds have not seen a significant spike in attendance coming off last season's division title and will likely be relatively inactive this offseason.


    They cant be serious to think because of their poor play and 10 games OUT, thats going to entice fans to buy tickets??? that's such a SLAP in the face of Reds fans.. WINNING last years division has seen attendance grow.. 12 sellouts before they started failing at staying in the race doesnt mean anything??

    What a joke.. Please sell the team to Mark Cuban, BOB!!!!

  2. #2
    Member LeDoux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    596

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    I don't think this is from the FO. Its just some speculation to spur traffic on the website.

  3. #3
    Retro-Gamer Krawhitham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,719

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfansince72 View Post
    posted tonight on mlbtraderumors:

    The Reds have not seen a significant spike in attendance coming off last season's division title and will likely be relatively inactive this offseason.


    They cant be serious to think because of their poor play and 10 games OUT, thats going to entice fans to buy tickets??? that's such a SLAP in the face of Reds fans.. WINNING last years division has seen attendance grow.. 12 sellouts before they started failing at staying in the race doesnt mean anything??

    What a joke.. Please sell the team to Mark Cuban, BOB!!!!
    Attendance has been horrible for a team that is the defending central champions with the league MVP on it.

    The strange part in the attendance has been going upward since that team tanked.

    On July 18th they were 3.5 games back and drew 22,000

    Today they are 10 games out and had 31,000 people and 28,000 yesterday

    Before the tanking attendance was nothing but terrible, if being champs with an MVP does not help attendance why should the owner spend more money?


    1st half of the season minus the Yankees they averaged 24,647, the 2nd half the have averaged 30,017

    For the complete season they are averaging 27,997, last season it was 25,438.

    The Reds are at max salary for the attendance they get, and an extra 2559 people per game does not come close to paying for the 124 million they committed themselves to last offseason because they thought being central champs and have the MVP would be a giant boost to the attendance. Well it did not help much at all, why should the owner spend more money when more people do not show up, like I said he spent 124 million last offseason and saw no return on the investment, why invest even more?


    Reds average ticket price is $19 so the extra 2,559 people get the Reds $3,938,301
    Last edited by Krawhitham; 08-14-2011 at 03:15 AM.

  4. #4
    Member ervinsm84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    West Chester
    Posts
    448

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post
    Attendance has been horrible for a team that is the defending central champions with the league MVP on it.

    The strange part in the attendance has been going upward since that team tanked.

    On July 18th they were 3.5 games back and drew 22,000

    Today they are 10 games out and had 31,000 people and 28,000 yesterday

    Before the tanking attendance was nothing but terrible, if being champs with an MVP does not help attendance why should the owner spend more money?


    1st half of the season minus the Yankees they averaged 24,647, the 2nd half the have averaged 30,017

    For the complete season they are averaging 27,997, last season it was 25,438.

    The Reds are at max salary for the attendance they get, and an extra 2559 people per game does not come close to paying for the 124 million they committed themselves to last offseason because they thought being central champs and have the MVP would be a giant boost to the attendance. Well it did not help much at all, why should the owner spend more money when more people do not show up, like I said he spent 124 million last offseason and saw no return on the investment, why invest even more?


    Reds average ticket price is $19 so the extra 2,559 people get the Reds $3,938,301
    Not sure where you came up with that, but the Reds played at pittsburgh on july 18. July 17th was a sunday afternoon home game that drew 24,841.

    Also, saying the front office "spent 124 million in the offseason" is a bit deceptive. They're not paying 124 million this year. Thats including future years salaries bc guys like bruce and votto got extensions . The payroll for 2011 is 75,947,134 http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team.


    As far as why attendence has increased throughout the season, Id imagine a lot of that has to do with the the first part of the season being played in march/april/may with kids in school and weather not as nice. Intuitively I think June-Aug should always have higher attendance barring the team being one of the worst in baseball (as frustrating as this team has been, theyre no where near that), but Im not sure if that is how its worked out in years past or not.


    Also, If the FO really expected some massive gain in attendance I think they were probably kidding themselves. Cincinnati is not a baseball town despite what a lot of reds fans like to say. In my small sample size with individuals I know in the critical 18-35 age demographic its just not that high on the list of things they're interested in. And its not surprising given overall how terrible the Reds product was for the majority of those individuals lives.

    I think the attendance spike this year is still a positive sign for the future years, and when looking at attendance for the past 40 years this shouldnt come as some major surprise to anyone. The most similar comparison I could find was the 1971 reds season. From 1941 to 1969 the reds won 1 division title in 1961. In 1970 the reds won their division and had the NL MVP in Johnny Bench (and even advanced further than the 2010 reds making the world series before falling). The 1971 reds had a poor season finishing 79-83, pretty similar to this 2011 team. That 1971 team drew a whopping 1,501,112 people and averaged less than 19,000 a game. This Reds team this year has already outdrawn them for the whole year. 1970 was also the first year of Riverfront stadium, so adding in a still relatively new ballpark for the 1971 season makes it even worse how bad attendance was for 71. If the FO is that unhappy with attendance, they need to open their eyes to the realities of attendance in the Cincinnati market and realize that the attendance ceiling for this city is no where near averaging 40,000 people a night. The 76 reds didnt even draw 35,000 a night. And yes I know, different era and the argument that attendance totals "should not" stay the same, but when you factor in that almost every game is now on television and peoples entertainment options for disposable income have multiplied by an exponential number since the 1970s I think its a wash at best.

    Heres a look back at the Reds historical attendance numbers.




    yearly attendance totals rounded. Just took exact average of rounded #
    *= divsion winner
    ** WS champs

    *1970 1.8 mill 22,222 pergame
    1971 1.5 mill ~18,518
    *1972 1.6 mill 19,754
    *1973 2.0 mill 24,691
    1974 2.2 mill 27,160
    **1975 2.3 mill 28,395
    **1976 2.6 mill 32,098
    1977 2.5 mill 30,864
    1978 2.5 mill 30,864
    *1979 2.3 mill 28,395
    1980 2.0 mill 24,691
    1981 STRIKE SHORTENDED
    1982 1.3 mill 16,049
    1983 1.2 mill 14,814
    1984 1.3 mill 16,049
    1985 1.8 mill 22,222
    1986 1.7 mill 20,987
    1987 2.2 mill 27,160
    1988 2.1 mill 25,925
    1989 2.0 mill 24,691
    **1990 2.4 mill 29,629
    1991 2.4 mill 29,629
    1992 2.3 mill 28,395
    1993 2.5 mill 30,864
    1994 STRIKE did not finish season/world series
    **1995 STRIKE shortened, won division
    1996 1.9 mill 23,456
    1997 1.8 mill 22,222
    1998 1.8 mill 22,222
    1999 2.0 mill 24,691
    2000 2.6 mill 32,098
    2001 1.9 mill 23,456
    2002 1.9 mill 23,456
    2003 2.4 mill 29,629
    2004 2.3 mill 28,395
    2005 1.9 mill 23,456
    2006 2.1 mill 25,925
    2007 2.1 mill 25,925
    2008 2.1 mill 25,925
    2009 1.7 mill 20,987
    *2010 2.1 mill 25,925
    2011 1,746,557 27,723 av in 63 home games. On pace for 2.25 mill
    Last edited by ervinsm84; 08-14-2011 at 05:43 AM.
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

  5. #5
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    1,038

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    Not sure where you came up with that, but the Reds played at pittsburgh on july 18. July 17th was a sunday afternoon home game that drew 24,841.

    Also, saying the front office "spent 124 million in the offseason" is a bit deceptive. They're not paying 124 million this year. Thats including future years salaries bc guys like bruce and votto got extensions . The payroll for 2011 is 75,947,134 http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team.


    As far as why attendence has increased throughout the season, Id imagine a lot of that has to do with the the first part of the season being played in march/april/may with kids in school and weather not as nice. Intuitively I think June-Aug should always have higher attendance barring the team being one of the worst in baseball (as frustrating as this team has been, theyre no where near that), but Im not sure if that is how its worked out in years past or not.


    Also, If the FO really expected some massive gain in attendance I think they were probably kidding themselves. Cincinnati is not a baseball town despite what a lot of reds fans like to say. In my small sample size with individuals I know in the critical 18-35 age demographic its just not that high on the list of things they're interested in. And its not surprising given overall how terrible the Reds product was for the majority of those individuals lives.

    I think the attendance spike this year is still a positive sign for the future years, and when looking at attendance for the past 40 years this shouldnt come as some major surprise to anyone. The most similar comparison I could find was the 1971 reds season. From 1941 to 1969 the reds won 1 division title in 1961. In 1970 the reds won their division and had the NL MVP in Johnny Bench (and even advanced further than the 2010 reds making the world series before falling). The 1971 reds had a poor season finishing 79-83, pretty similar to this 2011 team. That 1971 team drew a whopping 1,501,112 people and averaged less than 19,000 a game. This Reds team this year has already outdrawn them for the whole year. 1970 was also the first year of Riverfront stadium, so adding in a still relatively new ballpark for the 1971 season makes it even worse how bad attendance was for 71. If the FO is that unhappy with attendance, they need to open their eyes to the realities of attendance in the Cincinnati market and realize that the attendance ceiling for this city is no where near averaging 40,000 people a night. The 76 reds didnt even draw 35,000 a night. And yes I know, different era and the argument that attendance totals "should not" stay the same, but when you factor in that almost every game is now on television and peoples entertainment options for disposable income have multiplied by an exponential number since the 1970s I think its a wash at best.

    Heres a look back at the Reds historical attendance numbers.




    yearly attendance totals rounded. Just took exact average of rounded #
    *= divsion winner
    ** WS champs

    *1970 1.8 mill 22,222 pergame
    1971 1.5 mill ~18,518
    *1972 1.6 mill 19,754
    *1973 2.0 mill 24,691
    1974 2.2 mill 27,160
    **1975 2.3 mill 28,395
    **1976 2.6 mill 32,098
    1977 2.5 mill 30,864
    1978 2.5 mill 30,864
    *1979 2.3 mill 28,395
    1980 2.0 mill 24,691
    1981 STRIKE SHORTENDED
    1982 1.3 mill 16,049
    1983 1.2 mill 14,814
    1984 1.3 mill 16,049
    1985 1.8 mill 22,222
    1986 1.7 mill 20,987
    1987 2.2 mill 27,160
    1988 2.1 mill 25,925
    1989 2.0 mill 24,691
    **1990 2.4 mill 29,629
    1991 2.4 mill 29,629
    1992 2.3 mill 28,395
    1993 2.5 mill 30,864
    1994 STRIKE did not finish season/world series
    **1995 STRIKE shortened, won division
    1996 1.9 mill 23,456
    1997 1.8 mill 22,222
    1998 1.8 mill 22,222
    1999 2.0 mill 24,691
    2000 2.6 mill 32,098
    2001 1.9 mill 23,456
    2002 1.9 mill 23,456
    2003 2.4 mill 29,629
    2004 2.3 mill 28,395
    2005 1.9 mill 23,456
    2006 2.1 mill 25,925
    2007 2.1 mill 25,925
    2008 2.1 mill 25,925
    2009 1.7 mill 20,987
    *2010 2.1 mill 25,925
    2011 1,746,557 27,723 av in 63 home games. On pace for 2.25 mill
    Nicely stated!
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    510

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Attendance is horrible because they didn't do anything this past off season. If the FO would have made a significant upgrade to LF, SS, or a true #1 starter the Reds would be in the running for the playoffs this season and attendance would be great. This owner and FO don't seem to get it. After a central division championship they should have spent some money and keep this team competitive and they fans would have shown up in bunches. They just don't get it.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
    Posts
    334

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Attendance is horrible because they didn't do anything this past off season. If the FO would have made a significant upgrade to LF, SS, or a true #1 starter the Reds would be in the running for the playoffs this season and attendance would be great. This owner and FO don't seem to get it. After a central division championship they should have spent some money and keep this team competitive and they fans would have shown up in bunches. They just don't get it.
    The Reds front office invested $150MM in the team in the offseason. How is that not spending money? They didn't go out and get anybody else, but the market in the offseason was heavily inflated, and there were no good options to sign. Aren't you glad the Reds weren't able to sign Jason Bartlett like they were trying to? And regrading LF, that position has been league average this season. SS has been disappointing, but nobody could have predicted that Janish would be historically bad and Renteria wouldn't start hitting until late July. And they invested in a #1 in the offseason. Cueto has been a top 5 pitcher in the majors this year

  8. #8
    ZCTRMTP!!!!!
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,795

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Attendance is horrible because they didn't do anything this past off season. If the FO would have made a significant upgrade to LF, SS, or a true #1 starter the Reds would be in the running for the playoffs this season and attendance would be great. This owner and FO don't seem to get it. After a central division championship they should have spent some money and keep this team competitive and they fans would have shown up in bunches. They just don't get it.
    Exactly.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wheelersburg, Ohio
    Posts
    929

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Attendance is horrible because they didn't do anything this past off season. If the FO would have made a significant upgrade to LF, SS, or a true #1 starter the Reds would be in the running for the playoffs this season and attendance would be great. This owner and FO don't seem to get it. After a central division championship they should have spent some money and keep this team competitive and they fans would have shown up in bunches. They just don't get it.
    I will say this in their defense. The claim is that they didn't spend money this past off-season - not true. They spent 100 plus million to lock up Bruce and Cueto long term, reward Joey Votto, not to mention the raises the other players received because of contracts (Phillips, Arroyo, Cordero). It didn't work so well this year - but if you spent 100 plus million dollars and then are accused of not spending - I'm sure you would be a little miffed by that.

    I can't tell people how to spend their money - and attendance is a critical piece to the Reds budget - we as fans need to remember that. Of course we could back to the Carl Lindner days.

  10. #10
    ZCTRMTP!!!!!
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,795

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by markymark69 View Post
    I will say this in their defense. The claim is that they didn't spend money this past off-season - not true. They spent 100 plus million to lock up Bruce and Cueto long term, reward Joey Votto, not to mention the raises the other players received because of contracts (Phillips, Arroyo, Cordero). It didn't work so well this year - but if you spent 100 plus million dollars and then are accused of not spending - I'm sure you would be a little miffed by that.

    I can't tell people how to spend their money - and attendance is a critical piece to the Reds budget - we as fans need to remember that. Of course we could back to the Carl Lindner days.
    This is patently false. They did not spend 100 plus million in the over the winter. That is simply and totally untrue.

  11. #11
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    South of Cincinnati
    Posts
    2,071

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Attendance is BS when it comes to payroll unless you're at Florida Marlins awful levels. These people have money to burn. It's just a matter of how bad they want to field a winner on an annual basis.
    Rounding third and heading for home...

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    341

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by BluegrassRedleg View Post
    Attendance is BS when it comes to payroll unless you're at Florida Marlins awful levels. These people have money to burn. It's just a matter of how bad they want to field a winner on an annual basis.
    Somewhat true. It's a simple equation folks. You go to games, the team has more to spend. Look at the attendance of the Phillies, Yankees and Red Sox. And then look at their payroll....Gotta pay to play!

  13. #13
    Member ervinsm84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    West Chester
    Posts
    448

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by jwmann2 View Post
    Somewhat true. It's a simple equation folks. You go to games, the team has more to spend. Look at the attendance of the Phillies, Yankees and Red Sox. And then look at their payroll....Gotta pay to play!
    attendance for yankees games has little to do with why they can spend a ton. The YES network is the real reason
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Charleston, Ohio
    Posts
    413

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    For me it is simple. I will not spend my discretionary income on a poor product. Doesn't matter to me if it is baseball games or laundry detergent. I have a budget, and I won't make room for something that is not going to be worth my while. Let me qualify this by saying that I have been to several games this year, paid 5 dollars for a hot dog and 6 dollars for a beer, yada yada. The Reds have hundreds if not thousands of my hard earned United States dollars. But I can't continue to spend like this if the product (team) does not improve. If this organization wants my money then they need to invest in the team. Just like Tide, Downy, etc. must invest in marketing, improving the product they ship, research and development, and compete for my money, so do the Reds. Why should I spend money in hopes that the Reds will improve the team and win. Why can't they field the best team that they can, and when they are a product that I want to purchase I will write checks. It isn't difficult, it's just being a good steward of my family's money.

  15. #15
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    (sarcasm ahead), yeah, sure.........it's not like the wettest rainiest Spring ever had nothing to do with it.

    If this is true, Reds ownership doesn't get it.

    I think they thought all they had to do was sign these guys to extensions to show a commitment to winning. For me, filling the glaring holes this past offseason to try to improve some more would have shown me more.

    Ownership/management stood pat and thought they'd be alright. Most fans on Redszone seem to know more because the general offseason consensus was that LF, cleanup hitter, improved starting pitching, possible leadoff hitter that doesn't K so much, and SS all needed addressed, and the Reds had plenty to deal.

    Asleep at the wheel but blaming the fans. That'll go over well.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25