Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season????

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    500

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfansince72 View Post
    posted tonight on mlbtraderumors:

    The Reds have not seen a significant spike in attendance coming off last season's division title and will likely be relatively inactive this offseason.


    They cant be serious to think because of their poor play and 10 games OUT, thats going to entice fans to buy tickets??? that's such a SLAP in the face of Reds fans.. WINNING last years division has seen attendance grow.. 12 sellouts before they started failing at staying in the race doesnt mean anything??

    What a joke.. Please sell the team to Mark Cuban, BOB!!!!
    What a coincidence... I haven't seen a significant spike in team wins so I will likely remain inactive with my wallet.
    "Another note: Gomes told me yesterday that Rolen and Cabrera congratulate teammates for 10-pitch ABs that end in outs, and for sacrificing themselves to get runners over. Gomes said hes never been on a team that did that, not even the World Series Rays." -PD

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Toledo
    Posts
    753

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    My issue with Castellini is his spending doesn't back up his rhetoric. He has George Steinbrenner ambition on a George Costanza budget.

  4. #18
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    I debated posting this because of so many people will call BS and say its not true, but here goes anyhow.....in 2009 I sat down in a little dive BBQ joint in southern Ohio....I looked over and who was sitting there? Jim Bowden, leatherpants himself was ordering a beef brisket and mac n cheese so I allowed him to eat then I quietly said hello and wished him good luck in his future career choices.....he sat down next to me and my kids and it ended up being an hour long conversation about Baseball, JB was all about talking his profession......I felt bad that I was talking shop but he insisted that it did not bother him and he enjoyed every minute of it.....

    without going into every last detail, I asked him about attendance and payroll and how much it truly effected what they spend.....while it does effect what Bob allows Walt spend, it is a small chunk compared the puzzle.....Jimbo made it known that the FO knows you must put a winning team out there for at least 2 years in a row, preferrably 3-4 years in a row before you will expect big spikes in fans showing up.....He said they have a formula they use to plug into a 5 year plan, and if they think they will compete for the next 5 years then spending now might not pay off for 5 years, but if they truly think that it will pay off then they will make the move.....

    basically, JB noted that even the smallest market teams have the ability to spend 100 million for 2-3 years in a row and if it dont pan out then they can go back to the 50-70 mill range and it really not effect their long term plans...not sure if any of this makes sense to you all but it helped me understand the ins and outs of baseball....
    I always heard him called Leatherpants.

    Then one night I was out at the movies with my kids, up by Kings Island, and sure enough I look over and it's Jim Bowden with some hot looking chick.

    And wouldn't you know it..........he had his leatherpants on.

    It was hard to keep a straight face.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #19
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by Crumbley View Post
    My issue with Castellini is his spending doesn't back up his rhetoric. He has George Steinbrenner ambition on a George Costanza budget.
    Good one.

    You might even say he has George Steinbrenner amibition on a Curious George budget.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #20
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,806

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Attendance is horrible because they didn't do anything this past off season. If the FO would have made a significant upgrade to LF, SS, or a true #1 starter the Reds would be in the running for the playoffs this season and attendance would be great. This owner and FO don't seem to get it. After a central division championship they should have spent some money and keep this team competitive and they fans would have shown up in bunches. They just don't get it.
    Exactly.

  7. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,007
    If ever there were a person in this world who does not look like they belong in leather pants, it's JimBo... But he really did come off as a nice guy who had no issue talking shop with me on his time off and did it on HIS time.....I am a fan of his for that one day only, but I will never want him back in this organization.

  8. #22
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by ervinsm84 View Post
    Not sure where you came up with that, but the Reds played at pittsburgh on july 18. July 17th was a sunday afternoon home game that drew 24,841.

    Also, saying the front office "spent 124 million in the offseason" is a bit deceptive. They're not paying 124 million this year. Thats including future years salaries bc guys like bruce and votto got extensions . The payroll for 2011 is 75,947,134 http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team.


    As far as why attendence has increased throughout the season, Id imagine a lot of that has to do with the the first part of the season being played in march/april/may with kids in school and weather not as nice. Intuitively I think June-Aug should always have higher attendance barring the team being one of the worst in baseball (as frustrating as this team has been, theyre no where near that), but Im not sure if that is how its worked out in years past or not.


    Also, If the FO really expected some massive gain in attendance I think they were probably kidding themselves. Cincinnati is not a baseball town despite what a lot of reds fans like to say. In my small sample size with individuals I know in the critical 18-35 age demographic its just not that high on the list of things they're interested in. And its not surprising given overall how terrible the Reds product was for the majority of those individuals lives.

    I think the attendance spike this year is still a positive sign for the future years, and when looking at attendance for the past 40 years this shouldnt come as some major surprise to anyone. The most similar comparison I could find was the 1971 reds season. From 1941 to 1969 the reds won 1 division title in 1961. In 1970 the reds won their division and had the NL MVP in Johnny Bench (and even advanced further than the 2010 reds making the world series before falling). The 1971 reds had a poor season finishing 79-83, pretty similar to this 2011 team. That 1971 team drew a whopping 1,501,112 people and averaged less than 19,000 a game. This Reds team this year has already outdrawn them for the whole year. 1970 was also the first year of Riverfront stadium, so adding in a still relatively new ballpark for the 1971 season makes it even worse how bad attendance was for 71. If the FO is that unhappy with attendance, they need to open their eyes to the realities of attendance in the Cincinnati market and realize that the attendance ceiling for this city is no where near averaging 40,000 people a night. The 76 reds didnt even draw 35,000 a night. And yes I know, different era and the argument that attendance totals "should not" stay the same, but when you factor in that almost every game is now on television and peoples entertainment options for disposable income have multiplied by an exponential number since the 1970s I think its a wash at best.

    Heres a look back at the Reds historical attendance numbers.




    yearly attendance totals rounded. Just took exact average of rounded #
    *= divsion winner
    ** WS champs

    *1970 1.8 mill 22,222 pergame
    1971 1.5 mill ~18,518
    *1972 1.6 mill 19,754
    *1973 2.0 mill 24,691
    1974 2.2 mill 27,160
    **1975 2.3 mill 28,395
    **1976 2.6 mill 32,098
    1977 2.5 mill 30,864
    1978 2.5 mill 30,864
    *1979 2.3 mill 28,395
    1980 2.0 mill 24,691
    1981 STRIKE SHORTENDED
    1982 1.3 mill 16,049
    1983 1.2 mill 14,814
    1984 1.3 mill 16,049
    1985 1.8 mill 22,222
    1986 1.7 mill 20,987
    1987 2.2 mill 27,160
    1988 2.1 mill 25,925
    1989 2.0 mill 24,691
    **1990 2.4 mill 29,629
    1991 2.4 mill 29,629
    1992 2.3 mill 28,395
    1993 2.5 mill 30,864
    1994 STRIKE did not finish season/world series
    **1995 STRIKE shortened, won division
    1996 1.9 mill 23,456
    1997 1.8 mill 22,222
    1998 1.8 mill 22,222
    1999 2.0 mill 24,691
    2000 2.6 mill 32,098
    2001 1.9 mill 23,456
    2002 1.9 mill 23,456
    2003 2.4 mill 29,629
    2004 2.3 mill 28,395
    2005 1.9 mill 23,456
    2006 2.1 mill 25,925
    2007 2.1 mill 25,925
    2008 2.1 mill 25,925
    2009 1.7 mill 20,987
    *2010 2.1 mill 25,925
    2011 1,746,557 27,723 av in 63 home games. On pace for 2.25 mill
    Nicely stated!
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  9. #23
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    I still say the extremely wet Spring, including into June, and the poor economy have alot to do with attendance not being better.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  10. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    654

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    the attendance stinks because the team stinks
    the manager is inept
    the general manager is senile , he thinks acquiring heredia is a key off season move

  11. #25
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,806

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    They haven't done anything for the past how many winters? Why expect this one to be any different. When you are a small-market club and your window is open a bit you need to overpay to open that window completely. Because eventually the salary structure of your team is going to close that window on you whether you like it or not. You can't afford to be wasting seasons. I was caught up in the euphoria of 2010 as much as anyone but I recall a lot of discussion immediately after the season that this team still wasn't on the same level as top-tier clubs. The Reds had feasted on bottom feeders. This team did nothing to close that gap over the winter. Will they this off-season? Probably not.
    What good does it do to have talent at AAA if it is mostly blocked by people on the big club? Seems like a waste to me.
    How many open positions will there be in 2012? If you think the makeup of the club will be 13 position players and 12 pitchers it will probably look something like this.

    1) Votto
    2) Phillips
    3) Rolen
    4) Cozart
    5) Heisey
    6) Stubbs
    7) Bruce
    8) Hanigan
    9) Cairo
    10) Janish or Renteria (One will be back more than likely.)
    11) Sappelt
    12) Mesoraco

    1) Cueto
    2) Leake
    3) Arroyo
    4) Willis
    5) Bailey
    6) Masset
    7) Bray
    8) Ondrusek
    9) Arredondo
    10) LeCure
    11) Chapman

    That looks like room for one position player and one pitcher. Everyone else back to AAA. Essentially the same ballclub because I don't foresee management spending any money to fill holes. And I don't foresee Walt "I never overpay" Jocketty making any big moves.

    So in the spring of 2012 when Reds marketing sings, "Meet the new Reds; same as the old Reds!".
    The fans will refrain, "We won't get fooled again!"
    Last edited by texasdave; 08-16-2011 at 12:38 PM.

  12. #26
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    1,097

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    They haven't done anything for the past how many winters? Why expect this one to be any different. When you are a small-market club and your window is open a bit you need to overpay to open that window completely. Because eventually the salary structure of your team is going to close that window on you whether you like it or not. You can't afford to be wasting seasons. I was caught up in the euphoria of 2010 as much as anyone but I recall a lot of discussion immediately after the season that this team still wasn't on the same level as top-tier clubs. The Reds had feasted on bottom feeders. This team did nothing to close that gap over the winter. Will they this off-season? Probably not.
    What good does it do to have talent at AAA if it is mostly blocked by people on the big club? Seems like a waste to me.
    How many open positions will there be in 2012? If you think the makeup of the club will be 13 position players and 12 pitchers it will probably look something like this.

    1) Votto
    2) Phillips
    3) Rolen
    4) Cozart
    5) Heisey
    6) Stubbs
    7) Bruce
    8) Hanigan
    9) Cairo
    10) Janish or Renteria (One will be back more than likely.)
    11) Sappelt
    12) Mesoraco

    1) Cueto
    2) Leake
    3) Arroyo
    4) Willis
    5) Bailey
    6) Masset
    7) Bray
    8) Ondrusek
    9) Arredondo
    10) LeCure
    11) Chapman

    That looks like room for one position player and one pitcher. Everyone else back to AAA. Essentially the same ballclub because I don't foresee management spending any money to fill holes. And I don't foresee Walt "I never overpay" Jocketty making any big moves.

    So in the spring of 2012 when Reds marketing sings, "Meet the new Reds; same as the old Reds!".
    The fans will refrain, "We won't get fooled again!"
    I think Willis is a free agent at the end of this year -- I won't mind if he is resigned but someone else may outbid the Reds for him.
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  13. #27
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by nux fan View Post
    the attendance stinks because the team stinks
    the manager is inept
    the general manager is senile , he thinks acquiring heredia is a key off season move
    Ouch. Sounds painful. Do they give you penicillin for heredia?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    654

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    yes heredia is a transmitted affliction resembling chylmidia, once afflicted with heredia, a person can not hit, field or throw unless they are in "scoring" position, in which case they acquire the malady.

  15. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    111

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    I debated posting this because of so many people will call BS and say its not true, but here goes anyhow.....in 2009 I sat down in a little dive BBQ joint in southern Ohio....I looked over and who was sitting there? Jim Bowden, leatherpants himself was ordering a beef brisket and mac n cheese so I allowed him to eat then I quietly said hello and wished him good luck in his future career choices.....he sat down next to me and my kids and it ended up being an hour long conversation about Baseball, JB was all about talking his profession......I felt bad that I was talking shop but he insisted that it did not bother him and he enjoyed every minute of it.....

    without going into every last detail, I asked him about attendance and payroll and how much it truly effected what they spend.....while it does effect what Bob allows Walt spend, it is a small chunk compared the puzzle.....Jimbo made it known that the FO knows you must put a winning team out there for at least 2 years in a row, preferrably 3-4 years in a row before you will expect big spikes in fans showing up.....He said they have a formula they use to plug into a 5 year plan, and if they think they will compete for the next 5 years then spending now might not pay off for 5 years, but if they truly think that it will pay off then they will make the move.....

    basically, JB noted that even the smallest market teams have the ability to spend 100 million for 2-3 years in a row and if it dont pan out then they can go back to the 50-70 mill range and it really not effect their long term plans...not sure if any of this makes sense to you all but it helped me understand the ins and outs of baseball....
    Five years seems like an exaggeration. I hope they don't really think it takes 5 years of winning to get a payoff from their investment. That mindset would lead to a very conservative approach. Only huge improvements that would last for years would justify making serious expenditures. Smaller incremental things that might improve you a lot for a year or two would not make the cut.

    The effect of winning on attendance is really a two year thing. This year and last year matter a lot. After that the effect starts to wear off. Of course, being in a close race, having a new stadium, being in a big city, and ticket prices matter, too.

    Over the longer term, championships matter quite a bit. That is part of why St. Louis has such a large fan base; they have a large number of eras of very high level performance.

  16. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wheelersburg, Ohio
    Posts
    929

    Re: Reds Front office Blaming attendance why they wont do anything this off season???

    Quote Originally Posted by fewfirstchoice View Post
    Attendance is horrible because they didn't do anything this past off season. If the FO would have made a significant upgrade to LF, SS, or a true #1 starter the Reds would be in the running for the playoffs this season and attendance would be great. This owner and FO don't seem to get it. After a central division championship they should have spent some money and keep this team competitive and they fans would have shown up in bunches. They just don't get it.
    I will say this in their defense. The claim is that they didn't spend money this past off-season - not true. They spent 100 plus million to lock up Bruce and Cueto long term, reward Joey Votto, not to mention the raises the other players received because of contracts (Phillips, Arroyo, Cordero). It didn't work so well this year - but if you spent 100 plus million dollars and then are accused of not spending - I'm sure you would be a little miffed by that.

    I can't tell people how to spend their money - and attendance is a critical piece to the Reds budget - we as fans need to remember that. Of course we could back to the Carl Lindner days.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25