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Thread: Cave Man Baseball

  1. #1
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    Cave Man Baseball

    Last night brought back memories of the Lost Decade for me.

    It wasn't Mike Leake's meh start or his propensity for allowing long balls and liners. It wasn't the swing first and ask questions later offensively bad offense either.

    It was a first inning pop fly.

    The first batter of the game hit a pop fly any left fielder would have gotten. It landed five feet in front of the normal LF standing spot, roughly 70 feet behind the SS.

    And our erstwhile LF jogged in, stared the CF for a clue, and watched it fall.

    When seeing it on TV, I couldn't believe Alonso could have been that slow. So I timed it. It took almost five seconds (4.7 hang time) for it to drop. Enough time, in fact, for George Grande to hit us with a paragraph about how much of a 'tweener it was.

    Five seconds.

    That's enough time for a returner to camp under a punt kicked within 40 yards of his position in any direction.

    That's enough time for a high school sprinter to go 40 yards.

    That's enough time for Billy Hamilton to steal second base, dust himself off, and call time.

    No other LF in the game allows that ball to fall. Not Carlos Lee. Not Jonny Gomes. Not anyone.

    Then I saw the brutality of Edgar Renteria at SS. Two botched plays due to fall down range. Later in the game, a Votto E and, realistically, four of Leake's runs given up should have been prevented.

    Then it got me to thinking. (Dangerous, I know.)

    If the Reds are truly going to ignore defense completely and play guys at places they clearly don't belong, why not go whole hog and truly get the most out of it?

    Put mashers everywhere you can and let the chips (and balls) fall where they may.

    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    Bruce CF
    Hernandez/ Mesoraco C
    Alonso RF
    Frazier SS
    Francisco LF
    Neftali Soto 3B

    It has a nice LH/ RH swing to it and every player on the team would likely OPS over league average. Sure, you might point to Frazier at SS as ridiculous, but I'd point at his past experience there and Edgar Renteria as proof that he couldn't be any worse. In fact, Frazier's taller, so his fall down range might actually exceed Renteria's!

    And, if you don't like Alonso in RF, switch he and Francisco. If defense really doesn't matter, it shouldn't matter who can't get to the balls in the gap anyway, right?

    Of course, this lineup may necessitate an odd bench, as Jay Bruce is likely to be worn out after ten games or so. You may need two CF on the bench. But, with Stubbs and Heisey, that shouldn't be much of a stretch. (They can hit the ball too! Ugh-Ugh.)

    Selling Neftali Soto at 3B, particularly after he failed there as a prospect might raise a few eyebrows, but we've got the find a way to get that 900 OPS bat in the lineup and he owns an infielder's glove. So he's good to go. Or, he did get drafted as a SS. You could move Frazier to third. Then, you could make Brandon Phillips play rover-style in the middle of the field.

    You know, like softball.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 08-17-2011 at 09:08 AM.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  3. #2
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Scrap, I love the sarcasm. I am also rolling my eyes about this Alonso situation. I'd like to give Dusty credit for sparing us from Alonso in LF, for at least a little while. You know, in each game Alonso's had to make up at least one run at the plate because of his defense and even though he's hitting .400, he hasn't come close to offsetting his mistakes in the field. Each time up, I'm thinking, "He needs to hit a three run bomb to net positive in this game." LOL.
    2015 Rotation: Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani

  4. #3
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Perhaps Alonso starts in LF when someone like Willis or Cueto are pitching since they get a lot of their outs on ground balls.
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    No mention of Bruce's two misplays in RF last night?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  6. #5
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    No mention of Bruce's two misplays in RF last night?
    Bruce and Stubbs are not "great" glove guys, meaning they drop some stuff that perhaps they shouldn't.
    2015 Rotation: Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani

  7. #6
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Bruce and Stubbs are not "great" glove guys, meaning they drop some stuff that perhaps they shouldn't.
    As do nearly all players.

    Even ones with "gold glove" awards.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  8. #7
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Put mashers everywhere you can and let the chips (and balls) fall where they may.
    Jim...Jim Bowden? Is that you?

    (I still don't think Todd Frazier would kill this team playing now and again as a shortstop.)
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  9. #8
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    I was at the game last night, and saw the play in its entirety. Alonso's first two steps were to the back and left, and only then did he start charging in. The ball DID sound like it was hit harder than it was, but I doubt that was why his first reaction was what it was. To me it looked like he misplayed it.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  10. #9
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Its tryout camp time. The Reds aren't going anywhere and IMO are just trying to showcase Alonso's bat however they can get him in there. I can't imagine him actually playing out there next year when the games start to matter again.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #10
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Put mashers everywhere you can and let the chips (and balls) fall where they may.
    They tried that. It's now remembered as the lost decade.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  12. #11
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    They tried that. It's now remembered as the lost decade.
    I really don't think the failures had much to do with the offense or defense. The pitching was brutal for those teams and the defense wasn't much to blame. Yeah, some of it was the defense, but even with the best defense in baseball those pitching staffs would have still sucked.

  13. #12
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I really don't think the failures had much to do with the offense or defense. The pitching was brutal for those teams and the defense wasn't much to blame. Yeah, some of it was the defense, but even with the best defense in baseball those pitching staffs would have still sucked.
    I'd be excited to hear where the good defense was during those years.....not that the pitching was much better, but the d...or lack thereof, contributed to that.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  14. #13
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    I'd be excited to hear where the good defense was during those years.....not that the pitching was much better, but the d...or lack thereof, contributed to that.
    If what I said came off as me suggesting the defense was good, either I typed incorrectly or you misunderstood what I typed. I don't think the defense was good at all, but good defense or not, those teams had no pitching at all and that is the reason those teams didn't win. A great defense wouldn't have made a difference with those pitching staffs. That was the point I was trying to make.

  15. #14
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If what I said came off as me suggesting the defense was good, either I typed incorrectly or you misunderstood what I typed. I don't think the defense was good at all, but good defense or not, those teams had no pitching at all and that is the reason those teams didn't win. A great defense wouldn't have made a difference with those pitching staffs. That was the point I was trying to make.
    Pitching was bad....but the defense was a major player in those bad years. My eyes still hurt from seeing those hack defenders in action.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  16. #15
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Man Baseball

    The Reds are playing meaningless baseball games right now. If that reminds you of the lost decade, so be it, but now is the time for things like Alonso in LF.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.


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