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Thread: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

  1. #1
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    Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Do you feel like the Reds have kind of lost their way this season, from ownership, to the GM, to Dusty and his coaches, to the players?

    I really felt like they were headed in the right direction at the end of last season. They made the playoffs. The farm system produced 12 guys on the 25 man roster, and was flourishing still. It sure seemed like alot of things were going right last year.

    Then this offseason hit and I saw an aging, declining Scott Rolen at 3B and cleanup hitter, and really felt the organization should prepare to slide Rolen down in the order and find a legit cleanup hitter.

    I was in the "give Janish a shot" camp this past offseason. That didn't work out. But I was in the "give Cozart a shot camp" about the first of June. It took longer than it should have to bring up Cozart.

    I felt this past offseason that LF should be addressed, and hopefully it be a cleanup hitter. I also wasn't comfortable with Stubbs at leadoff, thinking he should bat 6th or 7th with all his strikeouts, but potential power.

    The Reds brought in Hermida, Lewis, Renteria.........hmmm.

    Then Gomes plays more against righthanders than lefthanders during this season, and seems to play all the time. And Dusty thinks Alonso is challenged in LF? Gomes is only slightly better. Gomes has terrific numbers against lefthanders, but Dusty plays him tons against righthanders. A real headscratcher.

    The past few years, the Reds have given Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs, former #1 picks, plenty of rope to hang themselves with. A long leash of uninterrupted starts. What did Heisey get? A three hit day followed by a couple of days on the bench. Pretty much the forgotten man now.

    I could continue on, but I feel like the organization lacks direction right now. They bring up Alonso but don't know what to do with him. They fail to trade Ramon Hernandez, who is having a terrific year, and holds alot of value as he becomes a free agent at season's end. And they could have brought up Mesoraco to break him in before next season.

    I am confused regarding the direction of the organization right now. Anyone else feeling this way?

    Seems like so many options, and the Reds don't know what to do with them.
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  3. #2
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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Reds management sat on their hands over the winter and the first half of the 2011 and basically wasted a year. Congratulations. In any case what is done is done and now they should focus on 2012. I don't really expect them to do that. They seem to want to believe that if they do nothing everything will turn out fine.

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    maybe they will "go on a run" and win 50 games in a row, in which case that would be huge


    Maybe the GM will start answering questions from an informed media

    maybe the manager will expand his thinking


    Nah,, seems way too far vetched

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    I think as of today they have a direction, and that is proven by looking at the trade deadline...we didn't trade any of our prospects. The direction is win next year, and I think we'll see plenty of off-season moves that will improve the team for next year.

    The direction over the offseason was add veterans to solidify this team for the NL Central race, because pretty much the same exact team had won the year before. It's a game to take, but we took it. To answer your question again, yes there was a clear direction then - and they stuck with it until we were out of contention this year.

    These guys aren't idiots, and they didn't "waste" a year. They took a risk (every team does) to try to win again with the same team as last year, and for whatever reasons (dusty, inconsistency, whatever you want to blame it on) this team did not come through last year. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can talk a ton of smack now for them not making a move - but they aren't idiots for thinking that a team that won the NL Central last year couldn't do the same this year.

    They won't make the same mistake again - this ownership wants to win.
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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Reds management sat on their hands over the winter and the first half of the 2011 and basically wasted a year. Congratulations. In any case what is done is done and now they should focus on 2012. I don't really expect them to do that. They seem to want to believe that if they do nothing everything will turn out fine.
    This. Virtually every team that's usually in contention, or winning the divisions, is constantly re-working their roster to improve their team. They hardly ever stand pat. The Reds did nothing in the offseason or trade deadline to help their cause. They gambled and they lost. I think this has led to some complacency with the players and actually set this team backward instead of forward.

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    A) You have an owner who wants to win but also seems to believe in both his GM and Manager

    B) You have a GM with fading abilities to build and mold a team in this new era of baseball

    C) You have a manager still managing like it was the 70's.

    D) You have a manager and GM who I really believe are not on the same page as "how" to put together a team

    E) You have a GM who may overvalue his prospects while his manager undervalues them

    F) You have a an MVP player who has made it pretty clear Cincy won't be his long term home

    G) You have an owner who will spend somewhat, but not willing to go all in

    H) You have a GM afraid to make a wrong move

    I) You have vets who bring something to the table, but it is fading with their age

    J) You have young players who like all young players are gonig to struggle at time

    So overall you have a team that is in flux...that is why I believe this up coming offseason could be the most important one this franchise has had in decades if not ever.

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Reds management sat on their hands over the winter and the first half of the 2011 and basically wasted a year. Congratulations. In any case what is done is done and now they should focus on 2012. I don't really expect them to do that. They seem to want to believe that if they do nothing everything will turn out fine.
    Reds management didn't sit on their hands this winter. They spent a lot of money on signing current players in order to keep them here long term. A small/medium market team has to look to the future when signing players. The Reds spent last year locking up core players, and I expect them to spend this offseason improving the team with external signings/trades.

    It wasn't completely unreasonable to assume that this team would still have a good year this year. I believe most people on this board still thought the Reds had a better team than the Cardinals, and many expected to be better than the Brewers. However, the Janish experiment just did not work, Stubbs has done little to build on his solid end of 2010, and the starting pitching got very little production from the guys who were being counted on. The Opening Day starter has spent half the year in AAA. Bronson has been horrible. Wood, who many expected to break out, has regressed significantly.

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    Reds management didn't sit on their hands this winter. They spent a lot of money on signing current players in order to keep them here long term. A small/medium market team has to look to the future when signing players. The Reds spent last year locking up core players, and I expect them to spend this offseason improving the team with external signings/trades.

    It wasn't completely unreasonable to assume that this team would still have a good year this year. I believe most people on this board still thought the Reds had a better team than the Cardinals, and many expected to be better than the Brewers. However, the Janish experiment just did not work, Stubbs has done little to build on his solid end of 2010, and the starting pitching got very little production from the guys who were being counted on. The Opening Day starter has spent half the year in AAA. Bronson has been horrible. Wood, who many expected to break out, has regressed significantly.
    It's great that we signed up our young talent long term in some cases, but that doesn't excuse wasting monies on Gomes, Edgar, Rolen and giving Cario a 2 year deal over a 1 year deal. It also doesn't excuse the abuse of Chapman who should have been in AAA working on being a starter. The "Opening day starter" should have never been on the major league roster, and Bronson should have started the year on the DL. As for Wood, he has struggled but all young pitchers do. No this team made way to many bad moves, investements and lineup cards...that was the problem this year.

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    It's great that we signed up our young talent long term in some cases, but that doesn't excuse wasting monies on Gomes, Edgar, Rolen and giving Cario a 2 year deal over a 1 year deal. It also doesn't excuse the abuse of Chapman who should have been in AAA working on being a starter. The "Opening day starter" should have never been on the major league roster, and Bronson should have started the year on the DL. As for Wood, he has struggled but all young pitchers do. No this team made way to many bad moves, investements and lineup cards...that was the problem this year.
    I have no problem with Gomes. He was signed to a cheap deal last year. I wasn't crazy about signing Edgar, but he wasn't even supposed to get much playing time until Janish just fell flat. Rolen's deal was done well before this past offseason. The real problem with Rolen is the injuries to Francisco. It was expected that Francisco would pick up for Rolen when he was hurt. Really, when you look at the money "wasted" last offseason, it's about $4MM, which is significant, but doesn't have a substantial impact on this team. If Walt does nothing this offseason, then I'll start to become frustrated, but I chalk up the failures this season much more to players than management

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    I like everything that is going on in the organization....right up through AAA & then everything after that is a mess.

    The Major League direction/philosophy is at odds with the Minor League.

    New Manager, New Hitting Coach, maybe keep the pitching coach, but the rest gotta go.

  12. #11
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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    Reds management didn't sit on their hands this winter. They spent a lot of money on signing current players in order to keep them here long term. A small/medium market team has to look to the future when signing players. The Reds spent last year locking up core players, and I expect them to spend this offseason improving the team with external signings/trades.
    This notion that the Reds spent a lot of money over the past winter is simply false. They made future commitments for a lot of money. There is a huge difference. They gained none of Votto's free agency years. They gained none of Hanigan's free agency years. They gained one of Cueto's free agency years (with a club option year). They gained two of Bruce's free agency years (with a club option).

    Votto, Hanigan, Cueto and Bruce were under the Reds control for the next three or four years regardless of whether their contracts were extended or not.

    The club probably saved money in the long term by doing this.

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    Re: Does Reds ownership/organization/management lack direction right now?

    They need a consistent hitter to go with Votto, every hitter on the team besides Votto is very streaky. Bruce will go off the charts for 2 weeks and then fall off the face of the planet for a month. They are all like that including Phillips. A consistent hitter will help them win a few games while waiting for the next wave to hit on the streaky players.

    John Fay and other blogger/beat writers away point to total runs scored and claim the pitching is the issue. The problem with that is the Reds score their runs in giant bunches and then go cold for a couple weeks. The Reds rank 6th in quality starts and are 1 quality start away from being in 4th place so starting pitching is not a big issue. The Bullpen while mismanaged has been solid this season with a 3.39 ERA (MLB average is 3.65)

    -

    A consistent hitter makes the team a contender next season, add a stud starter to go with Cueto would make the team the favorite in the central.

    The consistent hitter could come from with in, I do not think Mez is the answer because Reds already rank 6th out of 30 teams for catcher's OPS. While Mez will be an improvement the Reds already have good numbers from the catcher position.

    I still think Juan Francisco can be the answer, he has been consistent at every level in the minors and in limited time has a .295 average in the majors, PLUS his defense has improved dramatically, just last week Baseball America ranked his as and the best infield arm in the International League. His career minor league number project to a 30HR 100+ RBI.

    The problem with Juan Francisco is he is blocked for another season by Rolen. Why has Juan Francisco not been called up? He came of the DL about 2 weeks ago and is crushing the ball the same as he was before he got hurt. Are the Reds afraid he will prove he can out preform a healthy Rolen and do not want the backlash when Rolen still gets all the playing time? This season is over, call him up and plug him in everyday and see what he does for 5-6 weeks

    I assume Cozart will be the starting SS next season if he does not suffer a setback on this injury, If he can hit his weight he will be an improvement over Janish. From what I could see he is at least an average fielder

    Yonder Alonso is also blocked from playing, while people are screaming to move Votto to LF that will not happen, currently Votto is ranked the best defensive 1st baseman in baseball by Baseball America. Yonder Alonso is consider a below average 1st basemen, if you move Votto you will have a below average LF and a below average 1st baseman. That is not helpful. The Reds have 2 more years of Votto and 5 more years of Alonso, but if Alonso makes Super 2 status his contract allows him to file for arbitration after this season. So after arbitration in 2011,2012, & 2013 Alonso will cost almost as much as Votto would to resign if everyone on this site is right about his ability.

    Like I said this season is over, start him in LF everyday just to show teams what he can do with a bat. After the season trade him to a team that needs a 1st/DH that has a good outfielder to give up

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    A stud pitcher is not coming from within, they have a #1 and a bunch of #3,4,5s. Chapman could be a stud starter but he will be the closer next season. The Reds will cut ties with Coco and need a closer.
    To stretch Chapman back out to be a starter be will miss half the season to the minors and then be on a innings limit for the season when he is ready. Not really how you want to spend the 3rd year of a 6 year contract with a guy that throws 104 MPH on a team than needs a closer

    Unless Bronson Arroyo finds his missing 4-5 MPH he is a 5th starter. He will make 8.5 million (7m Base & 1.5 in deferments) next season which is a lot for a 5th starter. Now he will be a damn good 5th starter because he eats innings like no other. Lets hope the mono he had to start the season is the reason for the drop in speed and he can regain it working out in the off season

    Homer is a head case, if an error happens he collapses. When he has a bad game be blames GABP for being too small (Aug 8th). It is never his fault, he claims he made the pitches he wanted in the location he wanted but it is not his fault the balls went over the wall

    D-Train will sign somewhere else in the off season

    Wood & Leake are #3-#4 at this time, they might improve. But they might not too

    EV is just useless

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    The main problem with ownership/organization/management is the way they run the minors. WHO CARES if the minor league teams win or lose, use the minors to teach the basics of the game. How on earth did Stubbs make it through the minors and not know how the bunt for a hit with his speed.

    For a short period of time the Reds minor league teams would not allow a hitter to swing the bat until the pitcher had at least thrown on strike, Votto credits this to why he is such a good judge of the strike zone

    Get them on, get them over, get them in. QUIT teaching them to swing for the fences all the time, HRs will come it you take a solid approach to hitting. And players will hit more HR in the majors than in the minors because they will see more strikes in the majors than they did in the minors


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