Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: Brandon Phillips back batting first

  1. #16
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    17,993

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Tough to say. I would offer him the money to keep him, even though I am not sure he will be worth it. My reasoning is this: If we overpay but still get solid overall production, I can eat a little bit of money there. But if we let him walk and can't land the right guy in free agency to replace him, we don't have anyone in the system to step in right now and take his spot and we are very likely to take a large step backwards there. Give him the money for 2012 and see how things play out on the farm or via trade for a replacement. I would NOT extend him though. Wouldn't even think about it.
    It's probably a certainty that the Reds pick up Phillips' option. Not because of his bat.... because of his glove.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    33,763

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It's probably a certainty that the Reds pick up Phillips' option. Not because of his bat.... because of his glove.
    I agree completely, but that is also why I wouldn't extend him. His value comes from his glove and he is going to be on the wrong side of 30 for his entire new contract that someone is going to give him. Pick up the option for 2012 and be searching for a replacement starting yesterday.

  4. #18
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    5,705

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    His stats over the last 4 years would seem to say, stick Brandon in the 2 spot and leave him there.


    2011
    Code:
    By Batting Order	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	HBP	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    Batting #1	        5	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	.200	.200	.200	.400
    Batting #2	        236	38	69	16	0	5	25	13	3	29	4	2	.292	.336	.424	.760
    Batting #4	        216	25	58	10	1	5	37	16	3	28	3	6	.269	.321	.394	.715
    2010
    Code:
    By Batting Order	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	HBP	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    Batting #1	        315	41	79	11	5	8	33	18	5	42	5	4	.251	.302	.394	.696
    Batting #2	        180	35	55	15	0	5	9	15	2	22	7	4	.306	.364	.472	.836
    Batting #3	        34	7	14	1	0	1	4	4	0	4	3	0	.412	.474	.529	1.003
    Batting #4	        88	11	21	5	0	3	10	7	0	13	1	3	.239	.295	.398	.693

    Here are 2008-2010
    Code:
    By Batting Order	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	HBP	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    Batting #1	        315	41	79	11	5	8	33	18	5	42	5	4	.251	.302	.394	.696
    Batting #2	        190	35	56	15	0	5	9	15	2	23	7	4	.295	.351	.453	.804
    Batting #3	        234	34	63	12	3	5	30	20	2	27	13	4	.269	.327	.410	.737
    Batting #4	        1012	140	274	48	9	39	159	73	9	156	38	18	.271	.322	.452	.774
    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits...andon-phillips
    Last edited by klw; 08-18-2011 at 04:20 PM.

  5. #19
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,748

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Phillips is probably the best option for leadoff we have.
    He doesn't have the greatest OBP, but his power helps to make up for it.

    If the Reds want to play Sappelt too, it really doesn't matter IMO if Sappelt bats 1 or 2.

    I admire Phillips a lot. No one can accuse him of not caring.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #20
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,196

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Phillips isn't a lead off hitter. Phillips isn't a clean up hitter. Phillips is a 6th or 7th hitter.

    He shouldn't bat leadoff because his OBP isn't that good.
    He shouldn't bat clean up because, well, lets be honest, he isn't that good of a hitter.
    He's nearly ideal for the No. 2-hole. Good contact rate, good speed. Gets on base a sufficient amount.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    33,763

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    He's nearly ideal for the No. 2-hole. Good contact rate, good speed. Gets on base a sufficient amount.
    I don't really know. His numbers in the two spot would be ideal if he were able to repeat them there. I just don't know if he would be able to and I am not sure his overall numbers say "ideal #2 hitter".

  8. #22
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Walt's bomb shelter
    Posts
    6,760

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    I've always liked BP in the #2 spot as well.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  9. #23
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,680

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I admire Phillips a lot. No one can accuse him of not caring.
    Agreed. No one else is stepping up...glad to see he is.

    -Matt

  10. #24
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Posts
    1,125

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    3 for 4 tonight with a walk on top of that. He's motivated!

  11. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    I like Phillips hitting 1 or 2 better than in the middle of the lineup, 2nd wouldn't bother me because it would keep Renteria and Janish behind the run producers. I think hitting Bruce 3rd and Votto could be an option as well, Votto will protect Bruce more than Bruce or anybody else has been able to protect Votto. Also if you can find a high OBP leadoff guy to go along with Bruce 3rd with his on-base ability, Joey Votto would be looking at a lot of run producing opportunities. Just Saying

  12. #26
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    1,163

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Based on what's available right now, I don't mind Phillips leading off. I'd however bat Bruce 2nd and Votto 3rd. IMO, Votto's not getting pitched to because he has no one to protect him in the lineup, but rather because he's forever coming up with the bases empty and 2 outs. Same reason I like Bruce in the 2 spot. I hate predefined roles. The second hitter's job shouldn't be to bunt or hit behind a runner (handles the bat well!), but rather get on base for your 3 hitter who (there's that role again!) is presumably the best hitter on the team.

    Now, if the Reds were somehow able to find a leadoff hitter in the offseason, I'd move Brandon down to 5th or 6th (or even 7th) depending on what 3B looks like.
    This place use to be fun

  13. #27
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,196

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't really know. His numbers in the two spot would be ideal if he were able to repeat them there. I just don't know if he would be able to and I am not sure his overall numbers say "ideal #2 hitter".
    What about his numbers suggest a lack of being repeatable? I'd say his numbers have been remarkably consistent the last three seasons.

    His OBP has been nearly identical, so too has his contact rates; his batting average nearly the same; his slugging has dropped a small bit, but for being a 2-hitter, that's not as important.

    If anything, I think Phillips has been extremely consistent. I feel as if we know more about what we'll get out of him than any player on the Reds outside of Paul Janish and Joey Votto on extreme ends of the spectrum.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  14. #28
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,580

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Phillips isn't a lead off hitter. Phillips isn't a clean up hitter. Phillips is a 6th or 7th hitter.

    He shouldn't bat leadoff because his OBP isn't that good.
    He shouldn't bat clean up because, well, lets be honest, he isn't that good of a hitter.
    This. Brandon "it felt wrong not to swing" Phillips simply does not have the plate discipline.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #29
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    17,993

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not sure his overall numbers say "ideal #2 hitter".
    I'm with you on this one. There is a difference between a reasonable compromise for the Reds given the context of their roster (i.e. were there better options or not) and an "ideal" option.

    Here's a statistical look at Phillips compared to his peers based upon average production across batting order over his career ranked by wOBA (a great metric for summarizing the overall offensive skill set of a hitter):

    Code:
    Order	         BA	OPB	SLG	OPS	wOBA	BABIP	K%	BB%	ISO
    Batting 3rd	0.283	0.362	0.475	0.836	0.364	0.307	15.9	10.4	0.192
    Batting 4th	0.278	0.358	0.483	0.841	0.363	0.301	17.2	10.5	0.205
    Batting 5th	0.269	0.340	0.449	0.790	0.346	0.299	17.7	9.1	0.181
    Batting 6th	0.264	0.331	0.432	0.763	0.336	0.298	18.0	8.3	0.167
    Batting 1st	0.275	0.340	0.406	0.746	0.335	0.309	14.5	8.1	0.131
    Batting 2nd	0.275	0.336	0.412	0.748	0.334	0.307	14.6	7.7	0.136
    Phillips	0.269	0.318	0.428	0.746	0.324	0.289	14.2	5.9	0.159
    Batting 7th	0.257	0.320	0.404	0.724	0.321	0.292	17.8	7.8	0.147
    Batting 8th	0.249	0.316	0.378	0.694	0.306	0.288	18.0	8.2	0.129
    Batting 9th	0.213	0.267	0.307	0.575	0.256	0.272	23.3	6.0	0.094
    This comparison suggests that over his career, Phillips best fit the profile of an average #7 hitter given his poor on base skills and low walk rate. Over 600 PAs (roughly his average number per year), he's been .5 WAR below an average major league #2 hitter (i.e. .5 WAR/season below an average #2 hitter).
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #30
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,487

    Re: Brandon Phillips back batting first

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'm with you on this one. There is a difference between a reasonable compromise for the Reds given the context of their roster (i.e. were there better options or not) and an "ideal" option.

    Here's a statistical look at Phillips compared to his peers based upon average production across batting order over his career ranked by wOBA (a great metric for summarizing the overall offensive skill set of a hitter):

    Code:
    Order	         BA	OPB	SLG	OPS	wOBA	BABIP	K%	BB%	ISO
    Batting 3rd	0.283	0.362	0.475	0.836	0.364	0.307	15.9	10.4	0.192
    Batting 4th	0.278	0.358	0.483	0.841	0.363	0.301	17.2	10.5	0.205
    Batting 5th	0.269	0.340	0.449	0.790	0.346	0.299	17.7	9.1	0.181
    Batting 6th	0.264	0.331	0.432	0.763	0.336	0.298	18.0	8.3	0.167
    Batting 1st	0.275	0.340	0.406	0.746	0.335	0.309	14.5	8.1	0.131
    Batting 2nd	0.275	0.336	0.412	0.748	0.334	0.307	14.6	7.7	0.136
    Phillips	0.269	0.318	0.428	0.746	0.324	0.289	14.2	5.9	0.159
    Batting 7th	0.257	0.320	0.404	0.724	0.321	0.292	17.8	7.8	0.147
    Batting 8th	0.249	0.316	0.378	0.694	0.306	0.288	18.0	8.2	0.129
    Batting 9th	0.213	0.267	0.307	0.575	0.256	0.272	23.3	6.0	0.094
    This comparison suggests that over his career, Phillips best fit the profile of an average #7 hitter given his poor on base skills and low walk rate. Over 600 PAs (roughly his average number per year), he's been .5 WAR below an average major league #2 hitter (i.e. .5 WAR/season below an average #2 hitter).
    Although, the last 3 years have Phillips as a .332 wOBA


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25