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Thread: Big East Football

  1. #301
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I just wanted to highlight this statement.

    Winning on the field>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Winn ing some fictional rating system.

    Why do you recruit? You recruit to WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. You don't recruit to win recruiting rankings.
    But all time wins?

    Recruiting has much more to do with a team's success on the field today than a win they got in the 1921 Rose Bowl. All time wins don't impress me.

    Well on second thought, Tennessee is #9 in all time wins:

    http://collegefootball.about.com/od/...hools-wins.htm

    If I were to come on here and brag about UT being a top ten program and then backed up my argument that they're #9 on the All Time wins list what kind of response do you think I'd get?

    You know I'd get laughed out of here and the most kind thing said about me would be that I'm a homer. Well, think about that analogy before you continue down your present path...

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  3. #302
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    But all time wins?

    Recruiting has much more to do with a team's success on the field today than a win they got in the 1921 Rose Bowl. All time wins don't impress me.

    Well on second thought, Tennessee is #9 in all time wins:

    http://collegefootball.about.com/od/...hools-wins.htm

    If I were to come on here and brag about UT being a top ten program and then backed up my argument that they're #9 on the All Time wins list what kind of response do you think I'd get?

    You know I'd get laughed out of here and the most kind thing said about me would be that I'm a homer. Well, think about that analogy before you continue down your present path...
    Just because Tennessee is down now doesn't mean they aren't a top program in history. Of course, I think the past success, as well as the current success should be considered when evaluating a program. WVU certainly has a lot more history and tradition of a, say Boise State. Would you consider Boise State to have a better program than WVU?

  4. #303
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    Re: Big East Football

    Derek Dooley will end up being a worse hire than Joker Phillips.
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Just because Tennessee is down now doesn't mean they aren't a top program in history. Of course, I think the past success, as well as the current success should be considered when evaluating a program. WVU certainly has a lot more history and tradition of a, say Boise State. Would you consider Boise State to have a better program than WVU?
    I think there is a difference between history and the quality of the program.

    There are teams with a lot of tradition (Army, Navy, etc.) that can't be considered good programs in the current climate. Conversely there are schools like Boise State and Oregon that don't have a ton of tradition but have built great programs and figure to be successful going forward.

    To answer the WVU vs. Boise State argument, I'd say that WVU clearly has the better history but Boise State has the better program. Boise has been more successful in recent history and are a far better bet to win a national championship in the near future.

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    I think there is a difference between history and the quality of the program.

    There are teams with a lot of tradition (Army, Navy, etc.) that can't be considered good programs in the current climate. Conversely there are schools like Boise State and Oregon that don't have a ton of tradition but have built great programs and figure to be successful going forward.

    To answer the WVU vs. Boise State argument, I'd say that WVU clearly has the better history but Boise State has the better program. Boise has been more successful in recent history and are a far better bet to win a national championship in the near future.
    PLEASE present your evidence of this.

  7. #306
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Derek Dooley will end up being a worse hire than Joker Phillips.
    Take it to the SEC thread and we can discuss it

  8. #307
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Just because Tennessee is down now doesn't mean they aren't a top program in history. Of course, I think the past success, as well as the current success should be considered when evaluating a program. WVU certainly has a lot more history and tradition of a, say Boise State. Would you consider Boise State to have a better program than WVU?
    As of right now, I'd say Boise does not have a better program than W Va but that may change after a few yrs in the Big East. If that happens it'll be long before they catch up to W Va in all time wins.

    I don't care if Tenn is a top program in history. If they can't do any better than Derek Dooley, they're not a top program.

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    PLEASE present your evidence of this.
    I'll preface this by saying that these are numbers I compiled from different sources on the interwebs, so judge accordingly:

    As you said, it's all about the wins, and West Virginia just can't compete with Boise here. Boise had the best winning percentage (.868) and more wins (112) than any program in college football last decade. Clear advantage here to Boise State. While there's an argument to be made that Boise faced inferior competition during that period, it's not exactly like West Virginia was racking up wins in the SEC either.

    Boise has 2 BCS bowl wins to West Virginia's 3. While West Virginia has 1 more, it's impressive that Boise has two without the benefit of an AQ. Still, advantage to West Virginia.

    From the 2000-2010 seasons, West Virginia had a 5-5 bowl record, while Boise had a record of 6-4. Slight advantage to Boise State.

    Per ESPN, there are 15 current NFL players from Boise and 13 from West Virginia. Slight advantage to Boise State.

    From 2000-2010 each program had the same number of All Americans. This is a wash.

    Looks to me to be pretty evenly matched, if not a slight advantage to Boise.
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  10. #309
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    I'll preface this by saying that these are numbers I compiled from different sources on the interwebs, so judge accordingly:

    As you said, it's all about the wins, and West Virginia just can't compete with Boise here. Boise had the best winning percentage (.868) and more wins (112) than any program in college football last decade. Clear advantage here to Boise State. While there's an argument to be made that Boise faced inferior competition during that period, it's not exactly like West Virginia was racking up wins in the SEC either.

    Boise has 2 BCS bowl wins to West Virginia's 3. While West Virginia has 1 more, it's impressive that Boise has two without the benefit of an AQ. Still, advantage to West Virginia.

    From the 2000-2010 seasons, West Virginia had a 5-5 bowl record, while Boise had a record of 6-4. Slight advantage to Boise State.

    Per ESPN, there are 15 current NFL players from Boise and 13 from West Virginia. Slight advantage to Boise State.

    From 2000-2010 each program had the same number of All Americans. This is a wash.

    Looks to me to be pretty evenly matched, if not a slight advantage to Boise.
    No one claims the Big East is a good football conference, but it is not even close to compare Boise State's schedule to WVU's. Per www.teamrankings.com, over the last 9 years, WVU's average SOS is 29, while Boise's is 56. Boise's SOS was over 60 during 4 of those years, and WVU's was never above 41.

    Boise's quality wins over that period: UGA, VT, Oklahoma, Oregon (2)

    WVU's: UGA, Oklahoma, Auburn, GT, Clemson

    The quality of wins are pretty comparable.

    WVU holds the edge with 3 BCS wins compared to 2, as noted.

    I have trouble giving the overall bowl edge to Boise when 3 of their bowl wins are the Las Vegas Bowl (twice), and the Fort Worth bowl. There is a difference between playing in the Las Vegas Bowl and the Gator Bowl.

    Admittedly, the Stewart years are a black eye for WVU football. Boise had more quality wins that I originally remembered, but I have a hard time calling Boise more successful over the last ten years than WVU. It will be interesting to see how things go for them in the Big East.

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    No one claims the Big East is a good football conference, but it is not even close to compare Boise State's schedule to WVU's. Per www.teamrankings.com, over the last 9 years, WVU's average SOS is 29, while Boise's is 56. Boise's SOS was over 60 during 4 of those years, and WVU's was never above 41.
    You'll get no argument from me, but it's hardly fair to blame Boise for this. I think they've tried to schedule good non-conference opponents, but that doesn't make much of a difference when your conference stinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Boise's quality wins over that period: UGA, VT, Oklahoma, Oregon (2)

    WVU's: UGA, Oklahoma, Auburn, GT, Clemson

    The quality of wins are pretty comparable.
    I agree. They've both got a lot to be proud of in games against the big boys.



    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    WVU holds the edge with 3 BCS wins compared to 2, as noted.
    Pretty awesome for both programs if you ask me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I have trouble giving the overall bowl edge to Boise when 3 of their bowl wins are the Las Vegas Bowl (twice), and the Fort Worth bowl. There is a difference between playing in the Las Vegas Bowl and the Gator Bowl.
    Again, I agree with you, but it's really hard to blame Boise here. If you ask me, they got jobbed this year having to play Arizona State in the Las Vegas Bowl. Same can be said about last year's appearance in the Las Vegas Bowl. I mean, c'mon - they were #10 in the BCS rankings for crying out loud. They're a better team than their bowl appearances suggest and everyone knows it. Problem is, they've only been a D-1 program since 1996, and things like tradition and t.v. viewership matter.

    And, I hate to mention it, but WVU did have its fair share of stinker bowls in the past decade: Music City Bowl, Continental Tire Bowl, Meineke Car Care Bowl, and Champs Sports Bowl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Admittedly, the Stewart years are a black eye for WVU football. Boise had more quality wins that I originally remembered, but I have a hard time calling Boise more successful over the last ten years than WVU. It will be interesting to see how things go for them in the Big East.
    As an outsider to both programs, I don't think it's an absurd argument to make though. Each one is a fantastic program and I wish the Big East could have them both.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  12. #311
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    No one claims the Big East is a good football conference, but it is not even close to compare Boise State's schedule to WVU's. Per www.teamrankings.com, over the last 9 years, WVU's average SOS is 29, while Boise's is 56. Boise's SOS was over 60 during 4 of those years, and WVU's was never above 41.

    Boise's quality wins over that period: UGA, VT, Oklahoma, Oregon (2)

    WVU's: UGA, Oklahoma, Auburn, GT, Clemson

    The quality of wins are pretty comparable.

    WVU holds the edge with 3 BCS wins compared to 2, as noted.

    I have trouble giving the overall bowl edge to Boise when 3 of their bowl wins are the Las Vegas Bowl (twice), and the Fort Worth bowl. There is a difference between playing in the Las Vegas Bowl and the Gator Bowl.

    Admittedly, the Stewart years are a black eye for WVU football. Boise had more quality wins that I originally remembered, but I have a hard time calling Boise more successful over the last ten years than WVU. It will be interesting to see how things go for them in the Big East.
    What role do you think all time wins should have in this conversation? I see you didn't mention it

    As for the Big East I think it's a wash "trading" W Va for Boise except for the travel factor

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Per www.teamrankings.com

    I have a hard time calling Boise more successful over the last ten years than WVU.
    Interestingly enough, using the "Overall Power Ratings" from the site you provided, Boise finished ahead of WVU in 7 of those 9 seasons
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    You'll get no argument from me, but it's hardly fair to blame Boise for this. I think they've tried to schedule good non-conference opponents, but that doesn't make much of a difference when your conference stinks.



    I agree. They've both got a lot to be proud of in games against the big boys.





    Pretty awesome for both programs if you ask me.



    Again, I agree with you, but it's really hard to blame Boise here. If you ask me, they got jobbed this year having to play Arizona State in the Las Vegas Bowl. Same can be said about last year's appearance in the Las Vegas Bowl. I mean, c'mon - they were #10 in the BCS rankings for crying out loud. They're a better team than their bowl appearances suggest and everyone knows it. Problem is, they've only been a D-1 program since 1996, and things like tradition and t.v. viewership matter.

    And, I hate to mention it, but WVU did have its fair share of stinker bowls in the past decade: Music City Bowl, Continental Tire Bowl, Meineke Car Care Bowl, and Champs Sports Bowl.



    As an outsider to both programs, I don't think it's an absurd argument to make though. Each one is a fantastic program and I wish the Big East could have them both.
    I'll admit, the programs are a lot closer in terms of accomplishments than I had thought when I made the comment. I was mostly thinking the 3 WVU BCS wins over AQ conference champs were much more impressive than the 2 BCS wins by Boise, only one being over a team from a big conference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    What role do you think all time wins should have in this conversation? I see you didn't mention it

    As for the Big East I think it's a wash "trading" W Va for Boise except for the travel factor
    Well, wolf and I were discussing current success. As he conceded, all time success between the two programs is not comparable.

    As for the wash comment, I think we have to see if Boise can compete in a BCS conference, even if it is the Big East, before we can say its a wash. WVU has won at least a share of the Big East title 6 of the last 9 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Interestingly enough, using the "Overall Power Ratings" from the site you provided, Boise finished ahead of WVU in 7 of those 9 seasons
    I'm not sure that means anything.

  15. #314
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    Re: Big East Football

    Would you agree when discussing programs that current success is much more important than all time wins?

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Would you agree when discussing programs that current success is much more important than all time wins?
    Sure. This is also the most successful run of WVU football in their history. Three huge bowl wins in the last 7 years, conference championships in 6 of the last 9 years, 2 top 5 finishes, etc. I'd say there are only 10 or so programs that have had as good of a run as WVU has over the last 7 or so years, and that includes the ridiculous Bill Stewart era.


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