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Thread: Big East Football

  1. #286
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    You may not be familiar with how equitable remedies work, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see them used here.

    And a court certainly can't force WV to show up to play a Big East schedule, but they can definitely prevent WV from joining the Big XII in the meantime. Just like if you signed a valid non-compete with that crappy company, they couldn't force you to keep showing up, but they could damn sure keep you from taking that better one under the right circumstances. This case is nothing like the driveway paving one.
    I've not read a single piece of literature that makes me think anyone but Oliver Luck could prevent WVU from playing in the Big XII next year. Do you have any?

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  3. #287
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    Re: Big East Football

    Hasn't WVU already paid half of their early exit fee?

    Made it seem like a done deal the way I read it.

    Also, do you really want to keep WVU in your conference when every game they play is pretty much guaranteed to become a B12 commercial?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I've not read a single piece of literature that makes me think anyone but Oliver Luck could prevent WVU from playing in the Big XII next year. Do you have any?
    Or a rogue judge who will likely get impeached from office if not voted out in the next election. Getting the trial thrown out in Providence all but sealed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  5. #289
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    Re: Big East Football

    I wouldn't look at a SportsNation poll as proof of anything but recruiting does show quite a bit. Right now W Va is 20th in recruiting and UC is 22nd. I think that's about right. Whether that makes them a national power depends on your perspective but I think W Va as about the 20th best football program in America is fair

  6. #290
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I wouldn't look at a SportsNation poll as proof of anything but recruiting does show quite a bit. Right now W Va is 20th in recruiting and UC is 22nd. I think that's about right. Whether that makes them a national power depends on your perspective but I think W Va as about the 20th best football program in America is fair
    Recruiting rankings mean next to nothing, IMO.

  7. #291
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Recruiting rankings mean next to nothing, IMO.
    Pretty much.

    Recruiting isn't about the school, its about the pipeline you have of the players coming into those schools. West Virginia is a state that is one of the poorest in the nation, which means that there isn't a lot of talent in the HS ranks in any sport. WVU has to get the talent by recruiting from neighboring states that have talent (and its usually leftovers) or have an assistant that has a pipeline into that state. That's where Doc Holliday was so instrumental during his time at WVU in that he recruited in Florida under Urban Meyer and Florida is one of the top two states for recruits (Texas being the other, and WVU is making inroads there).

    If you're a coach, you know that you can leave a four star school for a five that has the pipeline that you can get the top recruits from and get paid a lot more (and have a ton of headaches on top of that). If you're Holgorsen and you have to settle for the leftovers in Ohio, Texas, and Florida and fight for the best recruits in Pennsylvania and Maryland when you can accept a job in, say, Tennessee if Derek Dooley is let go next season, you can pick and choose from the best in-state talent that Tennessee has to offer. (Not starting a rumor, just an example)

    Now there are exceptions to this rule. Kentucky in basketball is a prime example. Kentucky is like West Virginia in that both are poor states with small talent pools to choose from. Kentucky has the seven national championships to boot as well as an innovative coach that they are likely to keep for as long as he will stay.

    There are only two ways WVU can reach elite (five star) status, IMO:

    1. The economy improves within the state, jobs are created, people flock to West Virginia and more talent comes from within the state. WVU lands these recruits and starts winning at a higher level.

    2. WVU lucks into a coach who stays and they win some national championships during his tenure. Don Nehlen set the pace for WVU, but outside of the brief run by Rodriguez and now Holgorsen, they need somebody who will stay as long as Nehlen did and accomplish more. I don't know if Holgorsen will do that though.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Pretty much.

    Recruiting isn't about the school, its about the pipeline you have of the players coming into those schools. West Virginia is a state that is one of the poorest in the nation, which means that there isn't a lot of talent in the HS ranks in any sport. WVU has to get the talent by recruiting from neighboring states that have talent (and its usually leftovers) or have an assistant that has a pipeline into that state. That's where Doc Holliday was so instrumental during his time at WVU in that he recruited in Florida under Urban Meyer and Florida is one of the top two states for recruits (Texas being the other, and WVU is making inroads there).

    If you're a coach, you know that you can leave a four star school for a five that has the pipeline that you can get the top recruits from and get paid a lot more (and have a ton of headaches on top of that). If you're Holgorsen and you have to settle for the leftovers in Ohio, Texas, and Florida and fight for the best recruits in Pennsylvania and Maryland when you can accept a job in, say, Tennessee if Derek Dooley is let go next season, you can pick and choose from the best in-state talent that Tennessee has to offer. (Not starting a rumor, just an example)

    Now there are exceptions to this rule. Kentucky in basketball is a prime example. Kentucky is like West Virginia in that both are poor states with small talent pools to choose from. Kentucky has the seven national championships to boot as well as an innovative coach that they are likely to keep for as long as he will stay.

    There are only two ways WVU can reach elite (five star) status, IMO:

    1. The economy improves within the state, jobs are created, people flock to West Virginia and more talent comes from within the state. WVU lands these recruits and starts winning at a higher level.

    2. WVU lucks into a coach who stays and they win some national championships during his tenure. Don Nehlen set the pace for WVU, but outside of the brief run by Rodriguez and now Holgorsen, they need somebody who will stay as long as Nehlen did and accomplish more. I don't know if Holgorsen will do that though.
    Holgorsen's expectations would be rather high at the new school, just look at how many people schools like ND, Alabama go through. You have an opportunity to take a program like WVU and make it YOUR job, you have a chance to become Paterno, Osbourne, Bryant, etc for a program or become one of many at a 5 star school if you are successful and have no where near the leash you would at WVU. Example Peterson at Boise.
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  9. #293
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Holgorsen's expectations would be rather high at the new school, just look at how many people schools like ND, Alabama go through. You have an opportunity to take a program like WVU and make it YOUR job, you have a chance to become Paterno, Osbourne, Bryant, etc for a program or become one of many at a 5 star school if you are successful and have no where near the leash you would at WVU. Example Peterson at Boise.
    FWIW, Bear Bryant bounced around at different schools (Texas A&M, Kentucky), although Osbourne and Paterno I would agree with.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  10. #294
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    Re: Big East Football

    Its name association, ask the average football fan what school comes to mind when you mention Bear Bryant or Bobby Bowden and the schools that would come to mind are Alabama and Florida State, if asked about any other schools they coached at I figure most (outside of fans of those schools and football nuts) would not know where else they coached.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
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  11. #295
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Pretty much.

    Recruiting isn't about the school, its about the pipeline you have of the players coming into those schools. West Virginia is a state that is one of the poorest in the nation, which means that there isn't a lot of talent in the HS ranks in any sport. WVU has to get the talent by recruiting from neighboring states that have talent (and its usually leftovers) or have an assistant that has a pipeline into that state. That's where Doc Holliday was so instrumental during his time at WVU in that he recruited in Florida under Urban Meyer and Florida is one of the top two states for recruits (Texas being the other, and WVU is making inroads there).

    If you're a coach, you know that you can leave a four star school for a five that has the pipeline that you can get the top recruits from and get paid a lot more (and have a ton of headaches on top of that). If you're Holgorsen and you have to settle for the leftovers in Ohio, Texas, and Florida and fight for the best recruits in Pennsylvania and Maryland when you can accept a job in, say, Tennessee if Derek Dooley is let go next season, you can pick and choose from the best in-state talent that Tennessee has to offer. (Not starting a rumor, just an example)

    Now there are exceptions to this rule. Kentucky in basketball is a prime example. Kentucky is like West Virginia in that both are poor states with small talent pools to choose from. Kentucky has the seven national championships to boot as well as an innovative coach that they are likely to keep for as long as he will stay.

    There are only two ways WVU can reach elite (five star) status, IMO:

    1. The economy improves within the state, jobs are created, people flock to West Virginia and more talent comes from within the state. WVU lands these recruits and starts winning at a higher level.

    2. WVU lucks into a coach who stays and they win some national championships during his tenure. Don Nehlen set the pace for WVU, but outside of the brief run by Rodriguez and now Holgorsen, they need somebody who will stay as long as Nehlen did and accomplish more. I don't know if Holgorsen will do that though.
    Holgorsen is a very impressive coach and I wish the Mountaineers well in the Big 12 but I don't understand the problem with my saying that W Va for whatever reason is about the 20th best program. I don't think they attained a status any higher than that no matter your criteria

  12. #296
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Holgorsen is a very impressive coach and I wish the Mountaineers well in the Big 12 but I don't understand the problem with my saying that W Va for whatever reason is about the 20th best program. I don't think they attained a status any higher than that no matter your criteria
    8th in BCS bowl wins, 14th in all-time wins. What criteria do you use to knock them all the way down to 20? I certainly hope it's not recruiting rankings.

  13. #297
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    8th in BCS bowl wins, 14th in all-time wins. What criteria do you use to knock them all the way down to 20? I certainly hope it's not recruiting rankings.
    It's been a long time since I'd bet on them vs the #8 team in the country. Heck this yr they wouldn't even have beaten UC with a healthy Collaros and I don't think of them as a #8 school either. I'm not going back to the days of Hostetler in considering this anymore than I'm going back to the days of Joe Montana in evaluating where ND is today as a football program either. I think #20 is very fair. I think recruiting is a much more valid test than all time wins.

  14. #298
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It's been a long time since I'd bet on them vs the #8 team in the country. Heck this yr they wouldn't even have beaten UC with a healthy Collaros and I don't think of them as a #8 school either. I'm not going back to the days of Hostetler in considering this anymore than I'm going back to the days of Joe Montana in evaluating where ND is today as a football program either. I think #20 is very fair. I think recruiting is a much more valid test than all time wins.
    They were doing a pretty good job while Collaros was in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
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  15. #299
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    Re: Big East Football

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think recruiting is a much more valid test than all time wins.
    I just wanted to highlight this statement.

    Winning on the field>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Winn ing some fictional rating system.

    Why do you recruit? You recruit to WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. You don't recruit to win recruiting rankings.

  16. #300
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    Re: Big East Football

    A Tennessee fan saying anything about anything right now is pretty damn funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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