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Thread: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

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    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Travis Wood pitches bad he gets sent down

    Mike Leake pitches good....he gets sent down

    Volquez pitches bad...he gets sent down

    All of the above also resulted in numerous threads.

    Go back to 2010, 2009 and Aaron Harang gets blistered by Redszone and management obviously lost faith at the end


    In 2011 Arroyo has been nothing short of horrible but he keeps getting run out there. I know he can't be sent down but he certainly could go in the long man spot or disabled for mono.

    Even on Redszone I see very little threads on what to do about Arroyo. So I'm going to ask. What do we do about Arroyo the rest of this year and what where should he be penciled in for next year. I honestly can't see how the Reds can even count on him as one of the 5 even though he makes a ton of money.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

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  3. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Well, for starters, I imagine that most people expected it. Be it that some have been waiting for this balloon to burst for several years or the mono, I think most expected Arroyo to pitch poorly this season.

    As for the team.... well, they are paying him a ton of money, so he is going to go out there and pitch, even if he flat out sucks. We are stuck with him because of that terrible extension he got with the trade clause and the money upfront at that point.

    As for what we are going to do with him..... I would have DL'd him a long time ago. If for no other reason than rest. But the Reds aren't going to do that.

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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    I don't think he's gotten a pass from those at RZ, I've seen plenty of people critical. Now, I'll grant you that there seem to be less "Arroyo sucks" threads or anything similar, but maybe the mono has afforded him a longer rope. Especially since he has pitched a lot of good innings for the Reds.

    As for the management/organization angle, I think Doug's assessment is right.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    I think it's because Redszone has accepted that the Reds will likely run the course with Arroyo.

    Most people would not have signed him to the extension.

    Most people would likely not be penciling him into the rotation next year. And I think that's understood, not much debate about it.

    Meanwhile, I think it's also accepted that the Reds disagree based on their style of management and something we are going to have to live with until the Reds make the decision on their own.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Arroyo has had mono and just doesn't seem to have any "oomph" this season. Last time out he went 8 good innings and today he gets shelled. Just doesn't have the bounce back IMO. I think he could be better in 2012. The Reds probably won't have 5 better guys unless they go out and get at least 2. Three if dealing Bailey is required to get other parts.

    If there is an axe to grind, it's with the idiot who extended him IMO.
    Last edited by mth123; 09-10-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    He is who we thought he was, plus a few extra homers.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    And let's not forget: While all of us (or at least the vast majority) knew it was a mistake to extend Arroyo's contract for three years instead of just picking up his 2011 option, the fact of the matter is Bronson has earned a lot of respect inside the organization. That tends to happen when you never miss a start and pitch 200+ innings every year (usually with a decent ERA and W-L record).

    The other guys mentioned hadn't earned capital inside the organization (and from the fanbase) for years of quality service. Bronson is a gamer and people respect that. We also like knowing we traded the worthless Wily Mo Pena for him. It almost makes up for trading Josh Hamilton for Volquez. (OK, not even close, but at least we did make a great trade for once.)

    And when you say he's gotten a pass from fans, I'm not sure that's really accurate. Every Reds fan I know b1tches about Arroyo. Even my boss whines about him ... and my boss is a good guy. What's funny is my boss thinks he's this huge Reds fan but didn't even realize Arroyo was signed through 2013 until I told him a month or two ago. He thought his contract ran out after this season. It should be running out after this season if Walt just would have picked up his '11 option like he should have ... but that's a moot point.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    I think Arroyo's performance this season has been the worst out of any other player. To me, he usually manages to rope-a-dope his peripherals into a nice to salvageable season. I think this year we've seen what happens when he no longer has "the magic."

    I don't think he's as bad as he's pitched this year due to the bout with mono. However, I think his true ability going forward will be closer to what we've seen this year than what we've seen in his previous years with the Reds.

    In short, I'm revoking his pass.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Arroyo's latest contract is looking 'Miltonesque'....

    Today he tied Milton's all time Reds HR record, and now we have a contract with him for 2012 and 2013 that may rival what we paid Milton for poor production in 2005, 2006, and 2007.

    December 27, 2004:
    Free agent Eric Milton and Cincinnati agreed to a $25.5 million, three-year deal Monday as the Reds kept revamping their pitching staff.

    Milton, 29, led Philadelphia in wins, starts and strikeouts last season, going 14-6 with a 4.75 ERA in 34 starts with 171 strikeouts. (and gave up 43 HRs that year for the Phils)
    Milton's stats:
    2005 Age 29, 186 IP, 8 wins, 15 losses, 6.47 ERA, 40 HRs allowed, 1.55 WHIP.
    2006 Age 30, 152 IP, 8 wins, 8 losses, 5.19 ERA, 29 HRs allowed, 1.34 WHIP.
    2007 Age 31, 31 IP, 0 wins, 4 losses, 5.17 ERA, 4 HRs allowed, 1.53 WHIP.

    Arroyo has at least had several good years for the Reds, and hopefully will pitch better in the future w/o being plagued with the after effects of mono. We shall see, whether we want to or not. He is almost untradeable due to his deferred money becoming due immediately if he is traded.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Does mono last 6 months? Yeah, his fastball is down another MPH to a lame 87, but it's not like he was ever blowing guys away.

    The only differences between Arroyo this year and Arroyo last year is he's had a real high HR/FB rate and his batted ball luck has regressed to normal.

    People who expected him to continue putting up a 4.00 ERA were simply fooling themselves. Put a flyball pitcher who doesn't miss bats in a small park and this is what happens when he's not lucky.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 09-10-2011 at 10:24 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Instead of going to a 6 man rotation the Reds should just shut Arroyo down and let him rest. We are, effectively, stuck with him for another two years so let's get him started on resting up.

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    "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" Learn it, love it, live it.

  13. #12
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Combination of things:

    1. Most people expected it.

    2. His bout with mono.

    3. He's been a very good pitcher for us for a very long time, and has been a staple of the organization since his arrival from Boston. I don't think Arroyo's gotten a free pass around here lately, but people are a lot less likely to turn on him.

    Harang was expected to be our "ace," hence the reaction was more extreme when he flopped.

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    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Thing is that most people have expected the "regression" because they haven't been able to accept Arroyo's successes, which have come because he's the type of pitcher who relies on deception and location rather than missing bats. His periphials have always indicated that this was who he was, but Arroyo's a bit of an outlier because of the way he pitches. The numbers that for most pictures indicate who they really are insted have served to hide Arroyo's abilities.

    Because of that, the season he's had has been put down to the idea that he's rally always been like this instead of acknowledging that he has fallen off this year because of his refusal to recognize the effects of his illness, possibly combined with the natural aging process.

    As I said on another thread, Arroyo's season has been a prime example of why the Reds' medical department needs to be more aggressive when it comes to diagnoses and more insistent when it comes to treatment.

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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Does mono last 6 months? Yeah, his fastball is down another MPH to a lame 87, but it's not like he was ever blowing guys away.
    How long does Epstein Barr virus (mononucleosis or glandular fever) last?
    Symptoms of the Epstein Barr virus that causes mononucleosis or glandular fever, usually last from 1 – 4 weeks, although some cases may last months. Studies amongst university populations have estimated that 20% of mononucleosis patients return to work within one week, 50% within 2 weeks.
    It is estimated that about half of those who initially experience symptoms have ongoing symptoms two months after infection. At three months, about one in three sufferers reports symptoms, and at six months the figure is about one in ten. Twenty-four months after infection a small percentage of people still report symptoms, predominantly ongoing fatigue, although sore throat, swollen glands, muscle aches and low grade fever can linger.
    __________________
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    Re: Why has Arroyo gotten a pass this year from Reds management AND Redszone

    I've not complained about him on here, but I do to my friend. My friend always backs him up talking about his past records, etc. Yes, he has a point, but I still don't have to like him out there, but I've come to the fact that he is going to be here and he was pitching better of late until today. I just wonder if his money lasted longer because he never really took a break and I've also heard talk of his bad back this year. He's so into not missing a start that I think he's pitching when he needs to rest. This is a manager fault though. Arroyo is a gamer and I don't blame him for going out there, but I can blame Dusty
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