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View Poll Results: What's Next for Masset

Voters
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  • 8th inning duty in 2012

    12 26.67%
  • Replace Cordero as Closer in 2012

    0 0%
  • Platoon Closer in 2012

    1 2.22%
  • 7th inning or earlier in 2012

    14 31.11%
  • Don't resign in 2012

    18 40.00%
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Thread: Nick Masset: What's Next?

  1. #31
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    My emotional response is based on Masset's production.

    This season, he has given up a run in 1 out of every 4 games he has pitched in. It wasn't much better the year before: 1 in 5 games.

    That's terrible for a late inning guy. It's marginally passable for a middle reliever. Late inning relievers should be close to automatic if you want your team to contend.
    I'm not talking about expectations either.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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  3. #32
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    I voted let him walk because I don't want to pay him $3 Million +, but the correct answer is not on the list which is to include him in a deal. I'd clear as much iffy payroll from the books as posible until we fix the rotation and we know that the middle of the order will be manned by three capable bats (Votto, Alonso and Bruce and if one of them goes in a deal for a starter, somebody from outside the organization). Once we know how much the team will cost with those roles filled, then we can address the pen with whatever payroll room remains.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #33
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    My emotional response is based on Masset's production.

    This season, he has given up a run in 1 out of every 4 games he has pitched in. It wasn't much better the year before: 1 in 5 games.


    That's terrible for a late inning guy. It's marginally passable for a middle reliever. Late inning relievers should be close to automatic if you want your team to contend.
    May I ask what the league average is for relievers with say, 50 or more appearances and 50 or more IP?

    Edit - Just one example, legend Mariano Rivera gives up a run in 1 out of 6 games over the past 2 years. And no one is putting Massett anywhere near Rivera in terms of production.
    Last edited by kaldaniels; 09-26-2011 at 09:33 PM.

  5. #34
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    May I ask what the league average is for relievers with say, 50 or more appearances and 50 or more IP?

    Edit - Just one example, legend Mariano Rivera gives up a run in 1 out of 6 games over the past 2 years. And no one is putting Massett anywhere near Rivera in terms of production.
    That works out to nearly twice as many appearances in which you give up a run. Rivera averages around 10 a year, Masset had 18 this year. That's eight more wins a year that in jeopardy if Masset is a late inning reliever. That's significant for a contending team.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  6. #35
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That works out to nearly twice as many appearances in which you give up a run. Rivera averages around 10 a year, Masset had 18 this year. That's eight more wins a year that in jeopardy if Masset is a late inning reliever. That's significant for a contending team.
    Yup. He's not nearly as good as the best closer in major league history.

    This year, Cordero allowed an earned run in 14/66 appearances (21%). Masset was a 17/73 (23%). And yet people think they're getting a steal if they only have to pay Cordero $4MM or $5MM. Based on FIP and xFIP, he and Cordero were basically twins. However you slice it, Masset is a decent reliever who gave up a bit more hits than he has in the past. He's worth a few million bucks and would easily get something like 3/10 in FA -- likely more.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #36
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Yup. He's not nearly as good as the best closer in major league history.

    This year, Cordero allowed an earned run in 14/66 appearances (21%). Masset was a 17/73 (23%). And yet people think they're getting a steal if they only have to pay Cordero $4MM or $5MM. Based on FIP and xFIP, he and Cordero were basically twins. However you slice it, Masset is a decent reliever who gave up a bit more hits than he has in the past. He's worth a few million bucks and would easily get something like 3/10 in FA -- likely more.
    I completely agree. Both were decent middle relievers this year.

    I just think the Reds should be able to find someone just as good for close to league minimum. I hate paying for parking and I hate paying for middle relievers. With a little planning and effort, you shouldn't have to pay for either.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  8. #37
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That works out to nearly twice as many appearances in which you give up a run. Rivera averages around 10 a year, Masset had 18 this year. That's eight more wins a year that in jeopardy if Masset is a late inning reliever. That's significant for a contending team.
    Funny thing is, you being the one that introduced this stat into the thread, you haven't told us what the league average for that stat is. Do you even know....I sure don't.

  9. #38
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Funny thing is, you being the one that introduced this stat into the thread, you haven't told us what the league average for that stat is. Do you even know....I sure don't.
    On average, closers and set up men allow runs around 10-13 times a year, middle relievers around 15-20 times a season. That's the ones that pitch a full season.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  10. #39
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Is Masset really going to get $3M+ in arb?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  11. #40
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    It's as true today as it was yesterday. The statistics of Relief Pitchers are very volatile from one week, one month or one season to the next. If they have "Good Stuff" they most likely will have productive careers.

    IMHO Nick Masset has "Good Stuff". I hope the Reds hold on to him.

  12. #41
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    I give him the 8th, provided Cordero is back. If he's shaky, you move him to earlier in the game. The guy is just way too nasty (and still affordable) to give up on.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #42
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Nick Masset: What's Next?

    Top 11 RP's in the NL sorted by BB's
    Code:
    RK PLAYER	         TEAM	GP	GS	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	W	L	SV	HLD	BLSV	WHIP	ERA
    1 Jeff Samardzija	CHC	74	0	87.2	63	35	29	49	86	8	4	0	12	2	1.28	2.98
    2 Carlos Marmol	        CHC	74	0	73.0	54	33	33	46	97	2	6	34	2	10	1.37	4.07
    3 Henry Rodriguez	WSH	59	0	65.2	54	30	26	45	70	3	3	2	10	3	1.51	3.56
    4 Jonny Venters	        ATL	84	0	87.0	53	19	18	41	95	6	2	5	34	4	1.08	1.86
    5 Aroldis Chapman	CIN	53	0	49.0	23	21	20	40	70	4	1	1	13	2	1.29	3.67
    6 Jose Veras	        PIT	79	0	71.0	54	32	30	34	79	2	4	1	27	7	1.24	3.80
    7 Brian Sanches	        FLA	37	0	56.1	42	27	22	33	46	4	1	0	0	0	1.33	3.51
      Daniel McCutchen	PIT	72	0	83.2	86	38	35	33	46	5	3	0	10	0	1.42	3.76
      Ernesto Frieri	 SD	57	0	61.0	49	21	19	33	73	1	2	0	3	0	1.34	2.80
    10 Brian Wilson	         SF	57	0	55.0	50	20	19	31	54	6	4	36	0	5	1.47	3.11
    RK	PLAYER	TEAM	GP	GS	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	W	L	SV	HLD	BLSV	WHIP	ERA
      Nick Masset	        CIN	74	0	69.1	76	30	29	31	61	3	6	1	14	6	1.54	3.76
    With one exception, the top ten all have fewer hits than IP. Masset gave up a lot of hits this year, but while the K/9 dipped, it was still above his career average, and nearly 8 K/9. So it may have been just an off year.
    Suck it up cupcake.


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