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Thread: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    You get to pick one pitcher, within the system, FA or rumored to be available. Explain how you got him, and project his numbers.

    I say the Reds sign C.J. Wilson to a 4 year 51M contract. Wilson has now had 2 straight seasons of 200 IP, and he's getting better. He profiles as even on GB/FB as a starter, has a good K ability and would benefit from switching leagues. His defense in TX certainly doesn't hurt him, and the same holds true in Cincinnati.

    34 starts, 225 IP 3.00 ERA 210K's 1.15 WHIP 17 Wins.

    This makes the rotation

    Wilson
    Cueto
    Leake
    Bailey
    Arroyo

    - per TRF off ORG
    and this.....

    Ok if I'm the GM and I have to get a pitcher by Any means possible this is my plan.

    1) I call up Brian Sabean in SF and ask for Johnathon Sanchez, the Giants are loaded with starters and need help offensively so it'a a perfect fit.


    Reds trade: Yonder Alonzo and Dave Sappelt

    Giants trade: Johnathon Sanchez

    -Yonder becomes the Giants 1st baseman replacing Aubrey Huff, while Sappelt gives them a young backup of who could be a 4th/5th OF and replace the losses of Rowand and Ross in CF.

    -Sanchez then gives the Reds the Lefty in the rotation that they desperately need and helps to stabilize the rotation.

    1)Cueto
    2)Sanchez
    3)Leake
    4)Bailey
    5)Arroyo
    - per schroomytunes off ORG
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Member mroby85's Avatar
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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    If I'm the GM, I want a cleanup hitter to protect Votto in the order, not a pitcher.

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    I am guessing we don't have talent others want because if so there is no reason why Walt wouldn't have made a deal and we know there are no monies available to add a FA so we are stuck with what we have.

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    Member Billy Hamilton's Legs's Avatar
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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    don't deal votto. period.
    use grandal, alonso as centerpieces and build around that and make an offer for someone like james shields. I unfortunately don't think shields goes anywhere this offseason unless the rays are forced to with a crazy offer. he only makes 7mil in 2012, and the rays can afford that. i see him much more of a trade candidate at the deadline or after next season. unfortunately it's hard to find affordable TORs. usually if they are affordable, I question the motives behind the trade for the other team (ubaldo).

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    See I trade Votto and the reason I trade him is because a lot of people are saying the time to win is now! Well that is true but I don't want to go to the playoffs for two years then lose Votto and not be able to compete for another 3-4 years. I get rid of him because he is owed $30 million over the next two years with $19 being paid in 2013. Now even though a lot of our BS contracts are up then we can't invest 1/4 of our payroll into a player when we are a mid market team and have a viable replacement to go along with enough young players to use that money and sign to team friendly contracts to continue winning and even give us a chance to compete in free agency. This is strictly a business decision because I would love to keep votto but it sounds like he doesn't want to stay after 2013 and if that's true then ship him off. Plenty of pitching talented teams out there who need offense (Rays, Giants, WhiteSox, BlueJays, Seattle, LA Angels).

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    I've already propsed this elsewhere, so I will do the same here. I make two trades to get pitching this offseason.

    1. Trade Votto and whatever lower level player Seattle wants for Pineda, Brandon League, and their top prospect overall in a pitcher named Walker. Seattle needs hitting in the worst way, and they have just the pitcher and center piece for it in Pineda. League is a cheaper alternative to Coco and with a lot more on the fastball. Walker was drafted last year out of HS. Fastball is 92-94 and has been as high as 96. The change-up is his best secondary pitch.

    2. Secondly, I trade Grandal, Soto, and another throw in prospect for James Shields. TB really needs a catcher and a first baseman. This gives them both that could be ready by the end of next year.

    Rotation:
    1. Cueto
    2. Shields
    3. Pineda
    4. Chapman
    5. Leake

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    I like both ideas that Nate proposed, but I think it takes a lot to complete either trade. Either idea is only going to happen if you give up a number of prospects, therefore I think its a matter of choosing one or the other. In the case of Tampa Bay there isn't a better run organization in the major leagues right now. Just look at the haul they got from the Cubs for Matt Garza last season. These guys almost never swing and miss on trades. For the Reds to get Shields it would require a lot more than Grandal and Soto. Grandal would be a nice start, not sure Tampa would even be interested in Soto... like I said they are pretty savvy and Soto's MLB potential is questionable.

    Seattle is a possibility that intrigues me. He'd be expensive both in prospects and salary, but I honestly think that some team could pry King Felix away from the Mariners. It would require a package of players that would flat out overwhelm them into making the deal, as I do not think they are even considering trading him. Pineda is younger and cheaper, so he isn't going to be easy to get either. Again, you are going to have to package 3, 4, maybe even 5 guys to get one of their stud pitchers. Since the Mariners are bad they just about have to be open to make changes. They need offense in the worst way so if the Reds went after Felix in an aggressive way they might have a hard time saying no. Something along the lines of Heisey, Francisco, Grandal and Homer Bailey.


    Not saying thats realistic or going to happen... just throwin it out there.

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    no message
    Last edited by Vottomatic; 10-04-2011 at 08:25 AM.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    According to this report: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...s-2011-mlb-sfo
    ....the Giants need a CFer, first baseman, and their rotation is set with Lincecum, Cain, Vogelsong, Bumgarner, and Zito. Sanchez appears to be the odd man out.

    Snippet from article:
    • LHP Barry Zito(notes) is due another $46 million over the final two years of his contract. Incoming CEO Larry Baer hinted Zito will return in 2012. For now, there’s no concrete No. 5 starter behind RHPs Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain and Ryan Vogelsong(notes) and LHP Madison Bumgarner(notes). It could be LHP Jonathan Sanchez(notes), or it could be Zito, who went 3-4 with a career-worst 5.87 ERA in 13 games (nine starts).
    ...also from article....

    Biggest Needs: Hitters, hitters and more hitters. And better health. The Giants need a leadoff man, a corner outfielder with power and a young, athletic shortstop.
    Stubbs and Valaika for Sanchez. Makes perfect sense. Sanchez is odd man out of their rotation, but is still very good. Stubbs still has value, can leadoff, has great defense, and Valaika can play SS or 2B (if Freddy Sanchez doesn't recover from his season ending injury).

    Sanchez is arbitration eligible for '12. Deal hinges on signing Sanchez. Boras is his agent.

    I'd throw in Hanigan if they'd throw in Surkamp.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by nate1213 View Post
    I've already propsed this elsewhere, so I will do the same here. I make two trades to get pitching this offseason.

    1. Trade Votto and whatever lower level player Seattle wants for Pineda, Brandon League, and their top prospect overall in a pitcher named Walker. Seattle needs hitting in the worst way, and they have just the pitcher and center piece for it in Pineda. League is a cheaper alternative to Coco and with a lot more on the fastball. Walker was drafted last year out of HS. Fastball is 92-94 and has been as high as 96. The change-up is his best secondary pitch.

    2. Secondly, I trade Grandal, Soto, and another throw in prospect for James Shields. TB really needs a catcher and a first baseman. This gives them both that could be ready by the end of next year.

    Rotation:
    1. Cueto
    2. Shields
    3. Pineda
    4. Chapman
    5. Leake
    I doubt Seattle would want Votto. Not because of his lack of talent, but because the lack of ability to keep him more then 2 seasons. You are basically giving up a quality pitcher for very little and a Votto rental. As for Shields, I think TB is ina position to basically demand the world to get him, so it would take more then you offered.

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    According to this report: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...s-2011-mlb-sfo
    ....the Giants need a CFer, first baseman, and their rotation is set with Lincecum, Cain, Vogelsong, Bumgarner, and Zito. Sanchez appears to be the odd man out.

    Snippet from article:


    ...also from article....



    Stubbs and Valaika for Sanchez. Makes perfect sense. Sanchez is odd man out of their rotation, but is still very good. Stubbs still has value, can leadoff, has great defense, and Valaika can play SS or 2B (if Freddy Sanchez doesn't recover from his season ending injury).

    Sanchez is arbitration eligible for '12. Deal hinges on signing Sanchez. Boras is his agent.

    I'd throw in Hanigan if they'd throw in Surkamp.
    Dealing with Boras is something I wonder if Walt wants no part of.

  13. #12
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by HalKing View Post
    I like both ideas that Nate proposed, but I think it takes a lot to complete either trade. Either idea is only going to happen if you give up a number of prospects, therefore I think its a matter of choosing one or the other. In the case of Tampa Bay there isn't a better run organization in the major leagues right now. Just look at the haul they got from the Cubs for Matt Garza last season. These guys almost never swing and miss on trades. For the Reds to get Shields it would require a lot more than Grandal and Soto. Grandal would be a nice start, not sure Tampa would even be interested in Soto... like I said they are pretty savvy and Soto's MLB potential is questionable.
    Agree that it would take more. But I think Grandal is a good starting point. I just think they'll want atleast one good pitching prospect back or a young guy like Bailey or Wood who has already pitched in the majors. And then probably a lower prospect or two.

    Seattle is a possibility that intrigues me. He'd be expensive both in prospects and salary, but I honestly think that some team could pry King Felix away from the Mariners. It would require a package of players that would flat out overwhelm them into making the deal, as I do not think they are even considering trading him. Pineda is younger and cheaper, so he isn't going to be easy to get either. Again, you are going to have to package 3, 4, maybe even 5 guys to get one of their stud pitchers. Since the Mariners are bad they just about have to be open to make changes. They need offense in the worst way so if the Reds went after Felix in an aggressive way they might have a hard time saying no. Something along the lines of Heisey, Francisco, Grandal and Homer Bailey.


    Not saying thats realistic or going to happen... just throwin it out there.
    I don't want Felix anymore. He is too expensive and may not even be their best pitcher anymore. And while I think Seattle has alot of needs, other than pitching, I don't see them giving up quality young pitchers to get it.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    I doubt Seattle would want Votto. Not because of his lack of talent, but because the lack of ability to keep him more then 2 seasons. You are basically giving up a quality pitcher for very little and a Votto rental. As for Shields, I think TB is ina position to basically demand the world to get him, so it would take more then you offered.
    Ichiro's contract ends after next year, so I'm sure they could either not sign him back or get a discount so that he can end his career with the Mariners. Other than Ichrio, the only money they have anyone locked up in is King Felix.

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by nate1213 View Post
    Ichiro's contract ends after next year, so I'm sure they could either not sign him back or get a discount so that he can end his career with the Mariners. Other than Ichrio, the only money they have anyone locked up in is King Felix.
    Almost true. They owe Chone Figgins $9.5M in '12 and $8.5M in '13. But other than Felix and Ichiro, their slate is getting cleaner and cleaner.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Off of ORG: You're the GM......go get a pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    I doubt Seattle would want Votto. Not because of his lack of talent, but because the lack of ability to keep him more then 2 seasons. You are basically giving up a quality pitcher for very little and a Votto rental. As for Shields, I think TB is ina position to basically demand the world to get him, so it would take more then you offered.
    For the record, Shields is only signed for 2 more seasons as well. Yes, he'd be cheaper, but Votto is one of the best and most consistent first basemen in the league.

    I'd go for Sanchez if we had a chance, but I'd be reluctant about giving up Stubbs. We'd be selling him low, lose our only steal threat, and be reduced to Heisey in center, which substantially limits the ability to give Alonso a good defensive backup. Grandal and Alonso would be a good place to start.


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