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Thread: You are the GM... Center Field

  1. #1
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    You are the GM... Center Field

    Center Field defensively was a plus. Stubbs, Heisey, Sappelt. All three were good. Offensively? Stubbs was a huge letdown from his 2010 season. Now I have not been his biggest fan, originally because of who I thought the Reds should have taken (and that wasn't hindsight) then because the Reds had/have NO IDEA of how to properly develop him. But 2010 had me thinking he could be Matt Kemp or close to it. 2011 brought us a near 100 point drop in OPS, his power vanished. He was almost the same as 2010 in runs scored, so the wheels obviously are fine, but his HR and doubles power just dried up.

    Meanwhile, Heisey, flat outplayed him in half the AB's. Outproduced him in fact. Should their roles be reversed? Should one of them be traded?

    You are the GM. Address the Center Field situation. You can stand pat, fill from within the system, sign a free agent or acquire a CF rumored to be available.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  3. #2
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Put Heisey in center. Try to get value for Stubbs; if not, keep him as the fourth outfielder.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    I want to believe in Stubbs. That's not to say I think he's a stud, but I think he's still got the highest ceiling of the options we've got. The contact issues are definitely worrisome, but I still think his biggest problem is in his head. He can't seem to decide from one PA to the next whether he's going to be patient, aggressive or what. Bottom line, if he doesn't make some more contact, seasons like 2011 are going to be the regular for him. Given that he can take a walk and has some pop, more than he showed in 2011, I continue to start him.

    That said, if somebody is willing to give good value for him -- say the Astro's as part of a Wandy Rodriguez trade -- I wouldn't hesitate to deal him. Heisey has contact issues himself and isnt' exactly a threat to find first base, but's he got power and can handle CF. With Sappelt around as well, that's two viable options.

    If I'm trading Alonso (and I'm trying), I'm probably hanging on to Stubbs. But I could be convinced either way.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 10-04-2011 at 06:04 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  5. #4
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Platoon Sappelt and Heisey, trade Stubbs.
    Win the Division

  6. #5
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Stubbs should only play vs lhp.

    I am not sure what to make of Heisey. his splits are reversed & he has played better off the bench than as a starter. If we pencilled in an odd sort of Heisey/Stubbs or Heisey/Sappelt platoon would Heisey fall flat?

    I'd be fine with Sappelt as long as we had a lefty hitting centerfielder who could split time with him. Basically have competition for the job with the loser being the 4th outfielder. I wouldn't want to hand the CF job to a rookie without some sort of a fallback plan.

    I have twice read that Angel Pagan may be nontendered by the Mets. He is a switch hitter who hits righties better than lefties. If he gets non tendered I'd be interested in the Reds obtaining him.

    So...
    Heisey/Stubbs
    Heisey/Sappelt
    Pagan/Stubbs
    Pagan/Sappelt

    For me it depends on what we can get via trade. If Stubbs or Heisey could, as part of a deal, improve the rotation then do it. Or if either one could net us a solid reliever then that would be fine as well.

    1) Stubbs, Volquez & Masset for Wandy
    2) Heisey for an 8th inning arm
    3) add Pagan
    4) add Betancourt
    .

  7. #6
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Stubbs would be my number one trade chip to try and get a pitcher. He probably won't draw the interest on his own and will need to be packaged with some one else as the primary player. The guy is just clueless offensively. His contact problems are really plate dscipline/pitch recognition issues. He consitently lets fat ones go by early in the count, falls behind and then is forced to swing at stuff that he would be taking if the count was more favorable. He frequently misses or makes poor contact as a result of the stuff he's swinging at. I'm not optimistic that guys his age will ever improve at this. I see him going down the Corey Patterson downward career spiral. A couple of promising years early followed by progressively worse production as the league figures out how easy it is to pitch to him.

    Defensively, the guy is fast, smooth and pleasing to watch, but, IMO, he has trouble going back on the ball, plays a little too deep to compensate for it and the result is that he really doesn't take away the number of those dinkers that fall in for hits that a great CF should. He's fine defensively, but he really isn't anything all that special when it comes to turning batted balls into outs. If its not too late to cash him in, it will be after another season when he'll be a year older and arb eligible. If you think we'd be selling low now, wait a year and you won't be able to get much at all IMO.

    Sappelt would be the guy I'd give every opportunity to. I prefer Heisey as a 4th OF and a pretty decent insurance policy should Sappelt need more time in AAA.
    As others mentioned, if Stubbs sticks on the team, I only start him against lefty pitchers.

    This is another position that I wouldn't put much resources toward unless the guy acquired could be a middle of the order bat and to get that in CF, I'm guessing it would cost too much in both talent and money.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-04-2011 at 08:05 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Competition between Heisey and Sappelt, Phipps in the wings. Deal Stubbs.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Competition between Heisey and Sappelt, Phipps in the wings. Deal Stubbs.
    yes.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  10. #9
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Trade Stubbs, have Heisey in CF.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    I'll go against the grain. Hold onto Stubbs. Reduce some of his playing time in smaller parks vs RHP. I can live with that arrangement and make my changes elsewhere.

    Of course, if the right deal comes along and somebody wants Stubbs I don't hesitate to pull the trigger.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  12. #11
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Of course, if the right deal comes along and somebody wants Stubbs I don't hesitate to pull the trigger.
    No one's advocating just dumping him. The assumption is that he carries value (alone or in a package).
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #12
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If I'm trading Alonso (and I'm trying), I'm probably hanging on to Stubbs. But I could be convinced either way.
    I kind of take the opposite look at it -- if Alonso isn't traded, he's probably going to play left field. And if Alonso's in left, I really want Stubbs in center. I'll grant what mth said elsewhere in the thread about him not being great forward and backward, but he's awesome getting to the gaps, and if Alonso's in left we need that gap coverage.

    Of course, there's what we want and there's what we can have. If Stubbs is a key part to a deal for a pitcher, then so be it.

    I don't really like either Heisey or Sappelt in center full-time. By the standards of major-league center fielders, Heisey is nothing special. Good arm, meh range. Sappelt is the opposite -- range, but lousy arm. Stubbs has both.

    But there's no question Stubbs' regression at the plate has to be dealt with. He'll always have contact issues but they can't afford to get any worse.
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    I don't really like either Heisey or Sappelt in center full-time. By the standards of major-league center fielders, Heisey is nothing special. Good arm, meh range. Sappelt is the opposite -- range, but lousy arm. Stubbs has both.
    Heisey actually grades out only a sliver behind Stubbs as an OF according to WAR. (4.5 to 4.6 for their careers)

    He may not look as smooth, but Heisey does just as well, according to the numbers.

    Sappelt has too few innings to judge either way.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  15. #14
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    I'm not in favor of trading Stubbs unless an absolutely great deal presents itself. Don't like Heisey full time in center and I'm truly not sold that Sappelt is going to be anything more than a fourth or fifth outfielder.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  16. #15
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: You are the GM... Center Field

    whether it is random, luck, the baseball gods, whatever, Heisey's career numbers by position...
    Code:
    By Position	 AB	 R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	HBP	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    As LF	        183	24	37	7	1	6	16	15	3	52	2	1	.202	.271	.350	.621
    As CF	        123	26	41	3	0	11	23	10	4	32	3	1	.333	.396	.626	1.022
    As RF	        117	14	25	8	0	3	14	5	3	34	2	1	.214	.264	.359	.623
    All PH	        57	12	19	1	1	6	18	5	1	17	0	0	.333	.385	.702	1.087
    Suck it up cupcake.


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