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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

Voters
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  • RHP Brad Boxberger

    10 10.75%
  • RHP Dan Corcino

    13 13.98%
  • SS Zack Cozart

    23 24.73%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    0 0%
  • SS Billy Hamilton

    32 34.41%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    1 1.08%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    0 0%
  • 1B Neftali Soto

    4 4.30%
  • RHP Robert Stephenson

    8 8.60%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    1 1.08%
  • other (please list below)

    1 1.08%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

  1. #16
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Stephenson. High ceiling arm. Tried to justify Boxberger over him but Robert's ceiling is too high. Box will be my next choice.

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  3. #17
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    I also went Stephenson. I am a sucker for pitching, though.

  4. #18
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    In years past I would almost always vote for the highest upside, regardless of floor/current level. I like the ready now bat of Cozart with a league average (maybe better) glove at SS. Hamilton is hermes on the base path mixed with devin hester's athletic ability, but he still has a very long way to go. His floor could be cup of coffee and his ceiling could be Jose Reyes (ish). With such a wide range, I'm hedging here.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  5. #19
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Corcino. 156 K/34 W for a 21 year old. I like a number of the others, including Cozart, and 4-10 seem extremely close, but I think Corcino's numbers are extraordinary, especially this better than 4 to 1 K to W ratio (together with a well over 1 K per inning K rate).

  6. #20
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Corcino. 156 K/34 W for a 21 year old. I like a number of the others, including Cozart, and 4-10 seem extremely close, but I think Corcino's numbers are extraordinary, especially this better than 4 to 1 K to W ratio (together with a well over 1 K per inning K rate).
    I like Corcino here too. I love what Cozart's gonna bring to the table after this ball club's dearth of adequate shortstops for the past five years, but I can't see placing him above a 20 year old starter with a mid 90s heater and phenomenal numbers. And the likelihood of Hamilton turning out to be a useless speedster is way too high for this spot IMO.

  7. #21
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Hamilton here.

    Too much upside to rank further down.

    Love the speed, the athleticism, and the fact that he could play Gold Glove SS. Love that he walks a good bit (8.5% BB rate) and showed massive improvement from first half to second.

    His second half numbers-- 318/382/387/769 with a 384 wOBA-- are top-shelf and his ceiling is a game-changer at the top of the order. He's shown some massive improvement over the course of his young minor league career and looks to be a guy who really wants to learn as well. (His attitude has been praised multiple times, as has his aggressiveness and hunger to get better.)

    Don't like the lack of power, but, at leadoff and with his speed, I don't think it'll matter all that much. He'll need to learn to drive the ball more-- or bunt really, really well. If he can create more opportunities for himself by making the 1B and 3B creep close, he'll get 35 doubles and triples a year for himself.

    To me, if all goes well, he's Brett Butler at SS and an 8.0 WAR waiting to happen.

    Like Corcino and Cozart (not to mention Torreyes and Soto), but Hamilton is my pick to click.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  8. #22
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    At the start of the #1 prospect thread Cam said: "In the event of a tie, we will do a runoff vote."

    I think in the past runoff votes happened if the top 2-3 players were within 3-5 votes of each other. I'd prefer doing that this year as well. Maybe runoffs could occur if players are within 5 votes for the top 20 prospect polls and then 3 votes for 21-40. The logic being that there's alot more people participating in the early polls that could change their votes. For example, last year the #1 prospect poll had 116 votes while the #40 prospect poll had 45 votes.

    What does everyone think about that idea and runoffs this year?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  9. #23
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    I say this every year, unless there is a tie there is no reason for a runoff vote. Why overcomplicate things?

  10. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini View Post
    I say this every year, unless there is a tie there is no reason for a runoff vote. Why overcomplicate things?
    Agreed.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #25
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    At the start of the #1 prospect thread Cam said: "In the event of a tie, we will do a runoff vote."

    I think in the past runoff votes happened if the top 2-3 players were within 3-5 votes of each other. I'd prefer doing that this year as well. Maybe runoffs could occur if players are within 5 votes for the top 20 prospect polls and then 3 votes for 21-40. The logic being that there's alot more people participating in the early polls that could change their votes. For example, last year the #1 prospect poll had 116 votes while the #40 prospect poll had 45 votes.

    What does everyone think about that idea and runoffs this year?
    Sounds fine to me. Might even combine what you have here with what Danny Serafini said.

    Top 10 - within 5 votes requires a runoff vote.
    11-20 - within 3 votes requires a runoff.
    21-40 - No runoff except in the case of an exact tie.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  12. #26
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini View Post
    I say this every year, unless there is a tie there is no reason for a runoff vote. Why overcomplicate things?
    Because there are so many other players being considered initially that it changes the complexion of the voting. When you have just 2 players to vote on the vote could swing a great deal in the opposite direction.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  13. #27
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    In years past I would almost always vote for the highest upside, regardless of floor/current level. I like the ready now bat of Cozart with a league average (maybe better) glove at SS. Hamilton is hermes on the base path mixed with devin hester's athletic ability, but he still has a very long way to go. His floor could be cup of coffee and his ceiling could be Jose Reyes (ish). With such a wide range, I'm hedging here.
    Well said, about how I feel about it. Love 'em both but Hammy's distance from legitimacy is far, far greater than the norm. In fact I think most any major league club would take Cozart over Hamilton in a deal right now just because of the floor.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  14. #28
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    In fact I think most any major league club would take Cozart over Hamilton in a deal right now just because of the floor.
    No chance. Or at least I don't believe this to be the case.

    I can only think of one team that would make a deal for Cozart over Hamilton (Tampa Bay).

    And that's extremely arguable.

    Don't let Cozart's great major league hitting color your perceptions-- it's under 40 ABs. Look at his minor league numbers-- good power, good defense, low obp-- he looks to be an average-ish starter at SS, perhaps a bit more if the Reds are lucky. And that has some value, especially to a team that's in win-now mode. Think a 1.0 - 3.0 WAR guy with a ceiling of 4.0.

    Hamilton (assuming his defense works out) will grade out better than that based only on his speed and range. Think a 3.0 - 5.0 WAR with an outside shot at 8.0. That's the type of deal I make eight days a week if I'm a GM, as I can always find a SS of the free agent market or undervalued by another team while waiting on my SS of the future to blossom. (And the more SS I have in the system, the more likely I don't have to deal for anyone for a decade or two.)

    Last season, for example, Baseball America graded Hamilton as a Top 50-ish prospect in baseball. Cozart didn't make the list. While I often question BA and their fascination with some tools, this one passes the smell test. At least for me.

    Don't get me wrong: I like what Cozart brings to the table for 2012 and want him to take the majority of the starts for the Reds at SS. But when faced with a choice, it's a fairly easy one to make.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  15. #29
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    I voted for Cingrani. Absolutely dominant pitching stats in a hitters league. Can he be added next time?

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #4 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Don't let Cozart's great major league hitting color your perceptions-- it's under 40 ABs. Look at his minor league numbers-- good power, good defense, low obp-- he looks to be an average-ish starter at SS, perhaps a bit more if the Reds are lucky. And that has some value, especially to a team that's in win-now mode. Think a 1.0 - 3.0 WAR guy with a ceiling of 4.0.

    Hamilton (assuming his defense works out) will grade out better than that based only on his speed and range. Think a 3.0 - 5.0 WAR with an outside shot at 8.0. That's the type of deal I make eight days a week if I'm a GM, as I can always find a SS of the free agent market or undervalued by another team while waiting on my SS of the future to blossom. (And the more SS I have in the system, the more likely I don't have to deal for anyone for a decade or two.)

    Last season, for example, Baseball America graded Hamilton as a Top 50-ish prospect in baseball. Cozart didn't make the list. While I often question BA and their fascination with some tools, this one passes the smell test. At least for me.

    Don't get me wrong: I like what Cozart brings to the table for 2012 and want him to take the majority of the starts for the Reds at SS. But when faced with a choice, it's a fairly easy one to make.
    Come on now.... Hamilton, theoretically could become some type of good MLB player well into the future. But Hamilton isn't going to be better than Cozart because of his speed and range alone. Cozart is a solid defender who should be average at worst in the field. And to be honest, Cozarts power is very likely to provide more actual value than Hamilton's speed is.

    Here is the biggest difference, as you said, Cozart looks to be an average-ish starter, perhaps a tad more. Hamilton has an incredibly long way to go still before he can even be that.

    And that is why the two guys are close. I am with you that Hamilton is rated higher than Cozart, but it isn't by a whole lot.


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