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Thread: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

  1. #196
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Apparently not...

    http://oversigning.com/testing/index...iting-numbers/

    As you can see from the chart, only Georgia and Vanderbilt have signed fewer players in the past nine seasons in the SEC. Auburn has been the biggest violator.

    Has Meyer oversigned? Perhaps a few times... but clearly it hasn't been done egregiously and likely not with the intent of pushing kids out of the program to make room for recruits.
    Well, if he was talking about over-signing, it makes him seem a little hypocritical for ever over-signing at all.

    http://oversigning.com/testing/index...g/urban-meyer/
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Well, if he was talking about over-signing, it makes him seem a little hypocritical for ever over-signing at all.

    http://oversigning.com/testing/index...g/urban-meyer/
    Oversigning by itself isn't a big deal. If you have room for 25 players but you know two additional players are planning to leave, then in reality oversigning to 27 is not a problem. But forcing out players to derive at those numbers is a little different.

    The difference between 28 players a year and 23 players a year is significant. That means 10-20 additional players in a 4-year cycle are either leaving or being pushed out the door.

    I think to anyone being honest, that signals a clear difference of intent.

    It's not the oversigning... it's the oversigning by pushing out kids every year to make way for star recruits they otherwise might not have room to land. That's a little more on the deplorable side.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I should have said their program has been hit with the dreaded failure to monitor charge....
    Failure to Monitor carries the weight of a postseason ban only about a third of the time. Not sure how dreaded it really is...

    A nuisance, sure, but dreaded... typically not.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #199
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I agree that a fan should be realistic and negative when the time calls for it. I've just read a lot of negative and little positive in this thread. Obviously that is mostly a result of the type of season the Buckeyes had this year, but I've seen a lot of encouraging things out of this program over the past few months that have made me much more optimistic.
    And so have I. We're a young team with talent that is going to get better IMO. And I think Mike would also agree.

    This is not Fickel's team. This is Jim Tressel's team. Fickel was an interim coach, a representative on Tressel's behalf. It's Tressel's players and Tressel's coaches.
    I meant it was Fickel's team in the sense he was chosen by the school to be the HC this year. Everyone, including Fickell himself, knew this was going to be a very difficult year. Especially when you lose several of your star players, and have a new HC. Luke was there for it all, and deserves that bowl game.

    The guy who should be coaching the Bucks ASAP is Urban Meyer. Fickel was an interim coach. It is in the best interest of the football program for Meyer to get his system in place for the players and his coaches and to begin recruiting. I want to see Meyer coaching this bowl game.
    Allowing Fickell to coach any bowl game is not going to hinder Myer's efforts at recruiting or setting up his system. And it's a moot point anyway because that decision - and the right one too IMO - has already been made to....

    http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.s...ain_on_st.html

    Fickell also has one more game left as head coach, at the Buckeyes' bowl game while Meyer focuses on recruiting and putting together his staff. Meyer will attend some bowl practices though, and use that time to get to know his players as well as some of the other assistants.
    Good. Fickell has earned and deserves that final game. It's right that Myer's tenure begins afterwards.

    Myers is a great coach. We will have plenty of opportunities to see him coach bowl games. Just not this one.
    Last edited by GAC; 11-29-2011 at 05:20 AM.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Failure to Monitor carries the weight of a postseason ban only about a third of the time. Not sure how dreaded it really is...

    A nuisance, sure, but dreaded... typically not.
    I guess it is appropriate that the standards/expectations surrounding OSU football have changed over the course of the past year. F2M is the second worst charge the NCAA can levee and there was a time when my devout OSU buddies would've been horrified by their team having such a label...

    That was the original point-this isn't a morality play by UM
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Oversigning by itself isn't a big deal. If you have room for 25 players but you know two additional players are planning to leave, then in reality oversigning to 27 is not a problem. But forcing out players to derive at those numbers is a little different.

    The difference between 28 players a year and 23 players a year is significant. That means 10-20 additional players in a 4-year cycle are either leaving or being pushed out the door.

    I think to anyone being honest, that signals a clear difference of intent.

    It's not the oversigning... it's the oversigning by pushing out kids every year to make way for star recruits they otherwise might not have room to land. That's a little more on the deplorable side.
    Dabvu linked to a situation where U of F seemingly created a scenario in which they signed more players than they could reasonably expect to be able to keep given what they knew at the time of their signing. That is textbook oversigning. Either it's a deplorable practice or it's not. There really isn't room for it being just a little deplorable is there?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    I have a serious question: Meyer's record with recruits and their off-the-field antics was pretty brutal, especially considering how many incidents that were likely swept under the rug (as Jacksonville is obviously football-crazy and not likely to kill the golden goose).

    How many arrests and major crimes were committed by Gator football guys under Meyer's watch? At least 31, IIRC. 25 serious ones.

    Does that give any Buckeye fan pause at all?
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  9. #203
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Did anyone really believe he was never going to coach again? I think a lot of guys step down and really believe they're done. They learn it's easier said than done. I think it all boiled down to one of the very few jobs he actually coveted being open. This might have been his only chance to have this job, so I'm sure that's why he's back so soon. He said that were it not for this job being open, he would not be coaching next year. I'm sure that's probably true.
    I found it odd the second he started to work for ESPN. I realize that broadcasting is a much easier job that coaching, but the amount of tape they watch in order to get ready for a broadcast is pretty substantial. The second he stepped into that booth I thought he was going to return to coaching.

    This is easily the most exciting day for Ohio State football since the 2002 national championship.
    How quickly you forget two other BCS title game appearances, 6 straight wins over Michigan, 4 BCS Game wins. There were plenty of exciting days over the past decade.

  10. #204
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I have a serious question: Meyer's record with recruits and their off-the-field antics was pretty brutal, especially considering how many incidents that were likely swept under the rug (as Jacksonville is obviously football-crazy and not likely to kill the golden goose).

    How many arrests and major crimes were committed by Gator football guys under Meyer's watch? At least 31, IIRC. 25 serious ones.

    Does that give any Buckeye fan pause at all?
    Of course it's a concern. Here is a breakdown of the arrests at Florida.

    Marijuana - 4
    Fighting - 5
    Drinking (DUI and underage combined) - 5
    Driving (suspended license, etc) - 4
    Domestic violence - 4
    Felonies - 5

    All 4 players charged with domestic violence were dismissed from the team. 4 of the 5 felonies were later either dropped or reduced to misdemeanors, With players disciplined to various degrees (Can Newton was booted for being a rather poor thief).

    In general, if you are involved in a violent incident under Meyer, you're gone. If a felony sticks, you're gone. If you swipe a laptop and then throw it out the window when cops show up to search your room, you're gone.

    The more troubling issues come with the discipline for the "minor" issues. Carlos Dunlap received a one game suspension for being found passed out in his car. That doesn't send a strong enough signal for my tastes.

    Coaches are here to win games. That's just the reality of big time college football. Given that, I'm not going to blame Meyer because he recruits based on traits like speed and toughness instead of honesty and integrity.

    For the same reason I'm not shocked that he engaged in some over-signing shenanigans. He was coaching in the SEC, and he wasn't going to put his team at a competitive disadvantage. Expecting him to do otherwise isn't realistic. That doesn't mean he approves of it. That doesn't mean he shouldn't get credit for trying to minimize the negative impact of the practice on his kids.

    Frankly, the only thing relevant to OSU right now is that Meyer's program has never, ever, been in trouble with the NCAA, and that he knows how to win football games.
    Last edited by OUReds; 11-29-2011 at 12:37 PM.

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Good post OU, I agree.

    Obviously we don't want to have OSU be Thug U and hopefully that doesn't happen.

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    It did with Meyer in Florida, that's all I'm saying.

    I love that he's coming back, as Meyer's style of play is as entertaining as any in college football.

    However, Ohio State has, up until this year, always boasted about being both a winning team and winning "the right way".

    Meyer doesn't do things the "Ohio State Way".

    It's an interesting dichotomy that OSU fans now have to face: do we rail against the dirtiness of big-time college football, or do we hold our noses and dive right in?

    With the hire of Meyer, the university has chosen the latter.

    The fans seem to be doing the same. At least on this board.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    It did with Meyer in Florida, that's all I'm saying.

    I love that he's coming back, as Meyer's style of play is as entertaining as any in college football.

    However, Ohio State has, up until this year, always boasted about being both a winning team and winning "the right way".

    Meyer doesn't do things the "Ohio State Way".

    It's an interesting dichotomy that OSU fans now have to face: do we rail against the dirtiness of big-time college football, or do we hold our noses and dive right in?

    With the hire of Meyer, the university has chosen the latter.

    The fans seem to be doing the same. At least on this board.

    Well from the sounds of the press conference yesterday Urban was pretty fed up with how things were going at Florida. That probably has a lot to do with the recruiting environment as well as the crap he was putting up with from his own players getting into trouble. He has shown that he will kick people off the team and also that he won't just give up on a player if they make a mistake. I actually think Tressel followed a pretty similar approach with maybe a few less criminal issues. It's obviously not ideal, but I think it's bound to happen.

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Well from the sounds of the press conference yesterday Urban was pretty fed up with how things were going at Florida. That probably has a lot to do with the recruiting environment as well as the crap he was putting up with from his own players getting into trouble. He has shown that he will kick people off the team and also that he won't just give up on a player if they make a mistake. I actually think Tressel followed a pretty similar approach with maybe a few less criminal issues. It's obviously not ideal, but I think it's bound to happen.
    Again, I'm not unhappy that Meyer is back. But the buck pretty much stops with him, does it not? If he didn't like the culture at Florida, he was free to change it, was he not?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    I am in no way defending Meyer's record of arrests at Florida, it was not acceptable. It wasn't, however, as unusual as you might think. Penn State had 46 players arrested between 2002-2008, Georgia had 33 players arrested between 2007-2010.

    Here is a better rundown of every arrest with both the legal outcome and the team punishment. Link

    If your beef is that Meyer was soft on these issues, or that he encouraged them because he wasn't strict enough, then (with a couple of exceptions, see Carlos Dunlap) I don't agree. Meyer is pretty consistent and handed out plenty of tough punishment without regard to player skill. Again, he essentially kicked Cam Newton off the team.

    If you think the issue is that he should be more careful about who he recruits, then I suppose you might have a case. "The Ohio State Way" though hasn't been anything other then lip service in a long time. I can't believe anyone at this point thinks Tressel recruited based on character any more then any other big-time coach.

    Urban is pretty clearly aware that this was an issue at Florida. He spent some time addressing it at his introduction. I'd like to give him a chance to do better at OSU before I assume he's going to turn the program into Miami North.
    Last edited by OUReds; 11-29-2011 at 07:14 PM.

  16. #210
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    It did with Meyer in Florida, that's all I'm saying.

    I love that he's coming back, as Meyer's style of play is as entertaining as any in college football.

    However, Ohio State has, up until this year, always boasted about being both a winning team and winning "the right way".

    Meyer doesn't do things the "Ohio State Way".

    It's an interesting dichotomy that OSU fans now have to face: do we rail against the dirtiness of big-time college football, or do we hold our noses and dive right in?

    With the hire of Meyer, the university has chosen the latter.

    The fans seem to be doing the same. At least on this board.
    There are a whole lot of people in the profession that would outright reject that hypothesis. It's not at all corroborated by the weight of the evidence. In fact, known curmudgeon Lloyd Carr said in a radio interview this past spring that Meyer was "one of the real good guys."

    But don't just take my word or Lloyd's word for it.

    Not only did Meyer clearly not oversign like the SEC brethren, but he has a near spotless track-record with the NCAA in 10 years. Oh, and guess what? Since arriving at Florida, the Gators are second in the entire SEC (only to Vandy) in SEC academic honor roll players.

    If that's your definition of not "doing it the right way," I'd be interested in hearing what is required to do so.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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