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Thread: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

  1. #391
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by OUReds View Post
    Sanctions certainly haven't slowed down Meyer's recruiting. 3 more top 100ish recruits committed this week, David Perkins LB (a former Notre Dame commit), Joey O'Conner (a former Penn State commit, who left after the scandal broke), and Taylor Decker (an outright theft from Notre Dame). Since Meyer took over the class has gone from a mid twenties to a top 5 ranking.
    If you really want to be impressed, look at wht USC has done recruiting-wise.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #392
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If you really want to be impressed, look at wht USC has done recruiting-wise.
    They done really well. But IMO I really, really liked what I seen Stanford pull in, serious quality IMO.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If the culture in the Big 10 has been one of gentleman's agreements, well the big 10 should understand now that Meyer is no gentleman.
    The only gentleman's agreement was between Tressel and Dantonio as the two coached with each other for years. Dantonio and Bielema have flipped other verbals in the past. Both are just whining now.

    The good news for both is that I doubt Meyer will have to flip too many other schools' verbal commits from here on out. I'm guessing he will get who he wants pretty early.

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Flipping recruits isn't cheating.

    If the ideal is that a student athlete will end up in the best fit possible for him, it follows that giving that athlete more choices likely increases the chances that the ideal is achieved.

    If the culture in the Big 10 has been one of gentleman's agreements, well the big 10 should understand now that Meyer is no gentleman.
    The thing about gentleman's agreements is that they only seem to apply for the offended party. When its in that party's favor, it doesn't apply.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    The thing about gentleman's agreements is that they only seem to apply for the offended party. When its in that party's favor, it doesn't apply.
    Can you even imagine a coach actually verbalizing such an arrangement?

    I guess it's kind of like the unwritten laws in baseball.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Exactly. Florida was known for oversigning and player arrests during his time in Gainesville. No reason for it to change in Columbus.
    I must have missed all the oversigning, you know with Florida being well under the 85 limit for the 3rd year a row coming up, where are all these guys?

    As for player arrests, you sign top kids that's going to happen, no matter where you are.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Can you even imagine a coach actually verbalizing such an arrangement?

    I guess it's kind of like the unwritten laws in baseball.
    That's the thing, its "good ole boys" crap, and Meyer ain't in the club. He just farted in the country club bar after winning the club championship and the old timers ain't likin' it atall.
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  9. #398
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Mike Bianchi sounds off on Meyer's legacy at Florida:

    Muschamp dismissed his best player, Janoris Jenkins, from the team for a couple of pot arrests last year. Said Jenkins afterwards: "No doubt, if coach Meyer were still coaching, I'd still be playing for the Gators."
    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...1553252.column

    OSU essentially owns Ohio. It will be interesting to see if this effects the number of off the field issues associated with Meyer's recruiting classes now that he is at OSU.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Mike Bianchi sounds off on Meyer's legacy at Florida:



    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...1553252.column

    OSU essentially owns Ohio. It will be interesting to see if this effects the number of off the field issues associated with Meyer's recruiting classes now that he is at OSU.
    So Urban Meyer was at Florida for six years. His players were arrested 31 times. Now that he's gone he also gets "credit" for the arrests of the players he recruited that are still at UF? So does he get to go back and count how many of those original 31 were Zook recruits and subtract that from his total? Or does Bianchi get to count all of those in Meyer's total?

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    So Urban Meyer was at Florida for six years. His players were arrested 31 times. Now that he's gone he also gets "credit" for the arrests of the players he recruited that are still at UF? So does he get to go back and count how many of those original 31 were Zook recruits and subtract that from his total? Or does Bianchi get to count all of those in Meyer's total?
    And when it all comes down to it, it isn't that college students who are also athletes get into trouble, it is how the discipline is handled by the program that matters. And a lot of that is not public information. Just ESPN level potshots if you ask me.

    I mean, seriously, what meaningful measuring stick does "x number of arrests" provide? Did they result in convictions? Were they disciplined if team rules were violated (which is getting arrested a violation of team rules? of course not, anyone can get arrested)? If folks are going to bring that stuff up, just throwing out "number of arrests" is not fair for any program as any sort of measuring stick for the integrity of the program.

    No one wants their team's athletic program to lack integrity, but the current "evaluation" methods that are used to determine that are certainly not very helpful and abuse certain information to prove the case that critics are trying to make.
    Last edited by traderumor; 02-21-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    It was an editorial which means the guy can say about whatever he wants. But even by editorial standards that was a hack job. He got one quote from a player who was suspended from the team who thinks he'd still be on the team if Meyer were around, but that's just his speculation. Is it surprising that a player who is suspended by a new coach would say the old one wouldn't have done it?

    He may be right, but that doesn't make it any more speculation than it is. It's not like he never threw anyone off the team. Cam Newton is one example.

    He clearly had an agenda, but editorials are allowed that. But he really doesn't help his own credibility there. He claims all the arrests under Meyer were a result of the culture he created of not holding them accountable, even suggesting that so many players transferred because they didn't want to be a part of Muschamp's new order that actually held players accountable. Yet he then points out that 9 players were arrested since Muschamp took over, which seems to contradict his previous point. Seems to me that if the difference was Meyer himself and the culture of no accountability that Muschamp has instilled, there would have been a reduction in arrests once he was gone. Can't have it both ways. 9 players have been arrested since he took over. 1 has been thrown off the team. This guy is really grabbing at straws here.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    So Urban Meyer was at Florida for six years. His players were arrested 31 times. Now that he's gone he also gets "credit" for the arrests of the players he recruited that are still at UF? So does he get to go back and count how many of those original 31 were Zook recruits and subtract that from his total? Or does Bianchi get to count all of those in Meyer's total?
    You'll have to ask Bianchi.

    I get that some of this is sour grapes by Florida fans. I also get that pointing out anything that contradicts the narrative that Meyer chose OSU because its a place where he can be a moral coach of character rankles the feathers of some OSU fans.

    Bianchi's point though is a reasonable one. Attrition can decimate a recruiting class be it injury, academics, or off the field things. Meyer's program at Florida had an endemic issue with off the field issues that goes beyond simple arrest tallies. You can either put up with them or kick the kid to the curb. I think that's what Bianchi was pointing out-perhaps there wasn't enough kicking to the curb under Meyer and Muschamp is dealing with some housecleaning.

    My question did not have a value judgement attached. Will Meyer's new recruiting grounds alter the type of culture that developed under him at Florida or will a renewed battle in national grounds promote a similar culture at OSU? If so, will it be tolerated? Not tolerating it can mean saying goodbye to major talent.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #403
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    I don't think there's no valid point to be made around Meyer and what he left behind at Florida. There's no escaping the fact that he left the cupboards pretty bare and that's on him and is something he should not be very proud of. His heart wasn't in it the last year or two it seems. And I don't doubt that there's a lot of truth to the criticism that he fostered a culture lacking in discipline when it came to off the field behavior and that he recruited kids probably prone to these issues.

    Whether there's some truth to what's underlying Bianchi's tangent is not what I took issue with. That piece was all over the place with contradictions and the support he used was pretty poor. If you're going to make those kinds of accusations, he should at least do a better job supporting it. That's all I was saying.

    The real narrative of Meyer's decision is something only he knows, but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to think there's an element of truth to some of the noise about him wanting a different environment, even though that idea rankles the feathers of the SEC football is the greatest invention since the wheel crowd. He clearly was not happy in the environment he had in Gainesville, I don't think that much is really in doubt.

    I really don't know what his true motivations are, but I think there are some reasonable theories one could explore. His past head coaching experience was at Bowling Green and Utah. He's not having to deal with elite players and a lot of problem kids. He's obviously a great x and o coach, but there wasn't a lot in his experience that prepared him to be at the head of a program with the type of problems that come with a program like Florida (and I don't mean SEC, I mean a big time program with elite players and an atmosphere where football means everything. It could very easily have been OSU or any other big time program).

    Those programs have a different kind of athlete and a different set of expectations and problems that come along with it. I do think that's probably elevated at an SEC school with the type of atmosphere that exists down here, and I don't think anyone could argue with that considering it's one of the things the SEC fanbase is so proud of and reminds us of constantly.

    Meyer is a football coach and was never prepared to deal with what he had to deal with at a program like Florida. It's possible he just had no idea how to handle it and did a very poor job of adapting. It wore on him over the years and even led to some health issues. It wasn't getting any better and he felt ill-equipped to deal with all the other things that comes with being at the head of this type of program. Just because he's a skilled football coach doesn't mean he's skilled at managing that type of environment, from trying to recruit in the SEC to dealing with problem kids.

    Maybe he was just burned out and thought it was something he was just not going to be able to get better at dealing with, at least not in Gainesville. I'm not suggesting he was right or wrong about this, but I don't think it's that far-fetched a theory as to what he may have been thinking and what led him to leave Florida. What he thought is different that whether or not we think he's right in his thinking.

    And maybe he thought it would be different enough outside the SEC that he could focus more on coaching and less on that. Or it's possible that after a year away to reflect he now sees his role in what happened and feels better equipped to manage the types of problems that arise at an elite football program. I really don't know, but there are plenty of reasonable conjectures that don't completely dismiss the idea that at least he thinks things will be different at OSU instead of Florida.

    Personally, I think if he does believe this he'll be in for a disappointment. The problems he experienced at Florida will be there at any big time program....maybe not to the same degree, but they will be there. If he didn't learn from his experience in Gainesville and do things differently at OSU, I think there's a better than good chance he'll wind up burning out there as well. But there's no teacher like experience. He had none that prepared him for what he had to deal with in Gainesville. He now has that experience and and a clean slate. We'll see if he learned anything or not.
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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You'll have to ask Bianchi.

    I get that some of this is sour grapes by Florida fans. I also get that pointing out anything that contradicts the narrative that Meyer chose OSU because its a place where he can be a moral coach of character rankles the feathers of some OSU fans.

    Bianchi's point though is a reasonable one. Attrition can decimate a recruiting class be it injury, academics, or off the field things. Meyer's program at Florida had an endemic issue with off the field issues that goes beyond simple arrest tallies. You can either put up with them or kick the kid to the curb. I think that's what Bianchi was pointing out-perhaps there wasn't enough kicking to the curb under Meyer and Muschamp is dealing with some housecleaning.

    My question did not have a value judgement attached. Will Meyer's new recruiting grounds alter the type of culture that developed under him at Florida or will a renewed battle in national grounds promote a similar culture at OSU? If so, will it be tolerated? Not tolerating it can mean saying goodbye to major talent.
    OSU has had plenty of bad apples before Urban Meyer arrived and they will continue to have them. It's the nature of college football. I'm not sure why this has been coming up so much. Maybe it was some of the holier than thou OSU fans that brought it up after he smoked us in the NCG?
    As for the Meyer to Muschamp change over, I don't believe it is any different than any school with a coaching change. New coach means new rules and usually some attrition in the players. Once again it's the nature of college football.

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    Re: 2011 Ohio State Football - What is next?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post

    Bianchi's point though is a reasonable one. Attrition can decimate a recruiting class be it injury, academics, or off the field things. Meyer's program at Florida had an endemic issue with off the field issues that goes beyond simple arrest tallies. You can either put up with them or kick the kid to the curb. I think that's what Bianchi was pointing out-perhaps there wasn't enough kicking to the curb under Meyer and Muschamp is dealing with some housecleaning.
    That may be fair. I mean it seems that stealing laptops would be enough to kick someone out of school, yet it took that and multiple instances of academic fraud for Meyer to finally be done with one particular player I can remember.

    And as MWM pointed out, 9 arrests and only 1 one person removed from the program doesn't sound much like Muschamp housecleaning to me.

    Mike Bianchi seems to be doing a lot sounding off about Urban Meyer. Read this particular article. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-dwight-howard

    Is that who you really want to link on an OSU thread? Would you consider any part of that to be professional?

    As for your question, OSU is going to have arrests under Urban Meyer. I would hope 31 in six years would not be tolerated, but OSU will most likely have their share.


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