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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

Voters
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  • RHP Brad Boxberger

    18 22.50%
  • LHP Tony Cingrani

    2 2.50%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    3 3.75%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    5 6.25%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    4 5.00%
  • 1B Neftali Soto

    13 16.25%
  • RHP Robert Stephenson

    23 28.75%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    12 15.00%
  • other (please list below)

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

  1. #31
    ZCTRMTP!!!!!
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    What was the reasoning behind moving Boxberger to the pen? He began his first year with the organization as a starter and was successful. Any chance he moves back into a starting role? Wouldn't it be prudent for an organization to keep a pitcher in a starter's role as long as possible?

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  3. #32
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    What was the reasoning behind moving Boxberger to the pen? He began his first year with the organization as a starter and was successful. Any chance he moves back into a starting role? Wouldn't it be prudent for an organization to keep a pitcher in a starter's role as long as possible?
    Everybody can't be a starter.

    I must say, as a member of RedsZone for many years, it puzzles me how little regard people have for relief pitching.

    It's such a critical part of the game. Starters, even the best of them, usually don't go more than 7 innings on a good day. The bullpen is often the determinative factor.

    I can understand people not wanting to drop $10 million a year on a closer.

    But now it's no good if the team turns a prospect into a reliever? Where exactly should the relievers come from?

    End of rant.

  4. #33
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    I must say, as a member of RedsZone for many years, it puzzles me how little regard people have for relief pitching.

    It's such a critical part of the game. Starters, even the best of them, usually don't go more than 7 innings on a good day. The bullpen is often the determinative factor.

    I can understand people not wanting to drop $10 million a year on a closer.

    But now it's no good if the team turns a prospect into a reliever? Where exactly should the relievers come from?

    End of rant.
    Agree 100% with this.
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  5. #34
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Maybe we're not as deep here as last year, but at this point everyone has question marks. It's a matter of which questions you think have the best chance of being answered positively. Stephenson and Yorman are both too young to solidly project right now, but both have more potential value than Boxberger and, imho, Soto. The only thing that bothers me about Soto is that we're looking at a first base prospect with power who has been inconsistent year-to-year. I like him a lot, but I like the two kids' potential more.

    So I don't see any of these (or Sappelt or Torreyes, both of whom I'd likely pick over a reliever) as being a particularly baseless pick.

  6. #35
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

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  7. #36
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe View Post
    Maybe we're not as deep here as last year, but at this point everyone has question marks. It's a matter of which questions you think have the best chance of being answered positively. Stephenson and Yorman are both too young to solidly project right now, but both have more potential value than Boxberger and, imho, Soto. The only thing that bothers me about Soto is that we're looking at a first base prospect with power who has been inconsistent year-to-year. I like him a lot, but I like the two kids' potential more.

    So I don't see any of these (or Sappelt or Torreyes, both of whom I'd likely pick over a reliever) as being a particularly baseless pick.
    Soto has NOT been inconsistent. he was injured. big difference. When healthy, he mashed at every level. His injury is not a chronic thing, just sapped his power for a time.

    He's a beast in the making IMO and Votto's eventual replacement if traded.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #37
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    When healthy, he mashed at every level.
    Not really.

    In 2007 in the Gulf Coast League his OPS was .809.
    In 2008 at Billings (71 plate appearances) his OPS was 1.169.
    In 2008 at Dayton his OPS was .843.
    In 2009 at Sarasota his OPS was .645.
    In 2010 at Lynchburg his OPS was .778.
    In 2011 at Carolina his OPS was .904.
    In 2011 at Louisville (18 plate appearances) his OPS was 1.033.
    His lifetime OPS is .794.

    Soto did great at Billings in 2008 for 71 plate appearances.
    Soto did great in 2011.

    Otherwise he was ok, whether injured or not. Sub-.850 OPS numbers for a first baseman in the minor leagues are just not compelling.

    Doesn't mean he can't succeed. But we should proceed with caution.

  9. #38
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Stephenson was considered a great pick for the Reds, but he wasn't a can't miss kind of pick. High school pitchers are question marks and it seems hard to rank a guy who is still a large unknown that high IMO.
    High school pitchers aren't any more risky these days than college ones.

  10. #39
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Everybody can't be a starter.

    I must say, as a member of RedsZone for many years, it puzzles me how little regard people have for relief pitching.

    It's such a critical part of the game. Starters, even the best of them, usually don't go more than 7 innings on a good day. The bullpen is often the determinative factor.

    I can understand people not wanting to drop $10 million a year on a closer.

    But now it's no good if the team turns a prospect into a reliever? Where exactly should the relievers come from?

    End of rant.
    Pay attention to what you just said.... that two innings (which likely comes from two different pitchers) is more important than seven. Here is how I feel about a bullpen.... it is great to have a dominant one. But the individual parts within the bullpen aren't nearly as important as an individual part of a rotation.

    I guess the question is that is it worth risking a a potentially very good starting pitcher to get a guy to the Majors quicker as a reliever, even if he will make a very good one?

  11. #40
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Not really.

    In 2007 in the Gulf Coast League his OPS was .809.
    In 2008 at Billings (71 plate appearances) his OPS was 1.169.
    In 2008 at Dayton his OPS was .843.
    In 2009 at Sarasota his OPS was .645.
    In 2010 at Lynchburg his OPS was .778.
    In 2011 at Carolina his OPS was .904.
    In 2011 at Louisville (18 plate appearances) his OPS was 1.033.
    His lifetime OPS is .794.

    Soto did great at Billings in 2008 for 71 plate appearances.
    Soto did great in 2011.

    Otherwise he was ok, whether injured or not. Sub-.850 OPS numbers for a first baseman in the minor leagues are just not compelling.

    Doesn't mean he can't succeed. But we should proceed with caution.
    Yes really.

    In 2007 an .809 OPS in the GCL, pitcher friendly league. In 2008 he posted a .920 OPS across 2 levels as a 19 year old. 2009 FSL AND injured hamate bone. 2010 1st year after injury, power slowly comes back. 2011 back to where he was power wise in 2008. He'll be 23 at AAA next year (turns 23 in feb.) just for comparison sake, Alonso and Votto were both at AAA. but Frazier, Cozart, Stubbs, not so much (Stubbs and Frazier barely 2 weeks worth of games.)

    He needs to walk more, but the hit ability and the power that he has... he's for real.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #41
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    I went Torreyes.

    Youth and performance, along with a bat that looks like it will be powerful enough, speed aplenty, and outstanding defense at second base.

    He may be small, but should eventually fill out (as do almost all males between the ages of 18-21) at least a little.

    What I like best about him, however, is that he's been praised time and again for his work ethic and his willingness to do whatever it takes to be great. It doesn't hurt that he made that Dayton team last season into one of the most interesting and winning teams in the minors.

    He doesn't K much at all, so his BB rate, while low, shouldn't be too bad as he progresses. He's going to be BA driven, and his BA profiles as a 300 hitter.

    I could see a 2B Gold Glover with a pretty consistent line of 300/340/450 for a good long time, with some years where he may challenge for the BA title.
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  13. #42
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Pay attention to what you just said.... that two innings (which likely comes from two different pitchers) is more important than seven. Here is how I feel about a bullpen.... it is great to have a dominant one. But the individual parts within the bullpen aren't nearly as important as an individual part of a rotation.

    I guess the question is that is it worth risking a a potentially very good starting pitcher to get a guy to the Majors quicker as a reliever, even if he will make a very good one?
    As you know, I did not say that two innings are more important than seven.

    But some posters think that a team has to devote all its pitching resources to the rotation. As if the bullpen will get stocked out of thin air.

    I think it is appropriate that the Reds have decided that one of its top pitching resources should be groomed as a closer. Everyone can't start.

    And Boxberger appears very close to being a very good major league reliever and potential closer for the team. So I will continue to vote for him until he is selected.

  14. #43
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As you know, I did not say that two innings are more important than seven.

    But some posters think that a team has to devote all its pitching resources to the rotation. As if the bullpen will get stocked out of thin air.

    I think it is appropriate that the Reds have decided that one of its top pitching resources should be groomed as a closer. Everyone can't start.

    And Boxberger appears very close to being a very good major league reliever and potential closer for the team. So I will continue to vote for him until he is selected.
    I think he should have been given at least 1/2 a season more as a starter to see if he could have developed as a starter. The Reds messed around with Zach Stewart as a reliever before they traded him and I think they didn't scout him properly and they missed on a good starter. I hope they are doing the right scouting with Boxberger. I think he has a repetoire suited for starting and having him pitch with just two or three of his pitches as a reliever will waste some of his talent.

  15. #44
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Nor should we forget Soto's .645 OPS in 2009 or his .778 in 2010. His career OPS is under .800.

    The fact that he did well at age 19 isn't particularly important at this stage.

    He needs to show up at AAA next year to get into the top ten IMO. I think some folks may be giving his 2011 season too much importance.
    Nor should we forget Boxberger getting shelled in 2010... But you did.
    2010 Mock Draft Selections (picking for Rays)

    Bryce Brentz
    Brandon Workman
    Kris Bryant
    Matt Lipka
    Rick Hague

  16. #45
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Everybody can't be a starter.

    I must say, as a member of RedsZone for many years, it puzzles me how little regard people have for relief pitching.

    It's such a critical part of the game. Starters, even the best of them, usually don't go more than 7 innings on a good day. The bullpen is often the determinative factor.

    I can understand people not wanting to drop $10 million a year on a closer.

    But now it's no good if the team turns a prospect into a reliever? Where exactly should the relievers come from?

    End of rant.

    Dude... Look at WAR. RP's don't measure up no matter how good they are...

    Where should 1b come from? Failed 3b/SS's? Does it make their inherent position suddenly more valuable than the one they couldn't hack?

    Nope.
    2010 Mock Draft Selections (picking for Rays)

    Bryce Brentz
    Brandon Workman
    Kris Bryant
    Matt Lipka
    Rick Hague


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