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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

Voters
80. You may not vote on this poll
  • RHP Brad Boxberger

    18 22.50%
  • LHP Tony Cingrani

    2 2.50%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    3 3.75%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    5 6.25%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    4 5.00%
  • 1B Neftali Soto

    13 16.25%
  • RHP Robert Stephenson

    23 28.75%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    12 15.00%
  • other (please list below)

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

  1. #46
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As you know, I did not say that two innings are more important than seven.

    But some posters think that a team has to devote all its pitching resources to the rotation. As if the bullpen will get stocked out of thin air.

    I think it is appropriate that the Reds have decided that one of its top pitching resources should be groomed as a closer. Everyone can't start.

    And Boxberger appears very close to being a very good major league reliever and potential closer for the team. So I will continue to vote for him until he is selected.

    Congrats on your opinion... It doesn't make it right though... If the Reds suddenly decide tomorrow that Grandal can't hack it as a catcher and move him to 1b, does it make him equally or more valuable than Mesoraco even if they put up similar numbers?

    not really close.

    Because one position is more valuable than the other.
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  3. #47
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    He is 18 years old. I think that the only reason we are hearing so much about his attitude problems is because we have a guy close to the situation who posts on the board frequently (redsof72). The issue was brought up a time or two in the papers, but I think it is a bit overblown because of the board having a poster close to the situation who can bring it up often, while we don't have someone posting about other 18 year olds because those guys, sans Torreyes, aren't playing for teams that get any coverage at all. Dayton has had a grand total of TWO 18 year olds play more than a handful of games for them in their entire history. Both just happened to be on the team this past season. One guy is very mature. The other guy isn't as mature. But I think we need to keep in mind that aside from Torreyes, Yorman is the youngest every day player to be in Dayton in the franchise's history. Of course he is going to be seen as immature, he is far and away one of the youngest players they have ever had. Dayton has had 8 teenagers get 300 PA's in a season for them and three of them were on the 2011 Dragons.
    I understand that and give it it's due. I'm not saying he can't still be all we have hoped for him since he got here. But I'm not gonna ignore the valuable information I have gotten and seen myself 1st hand about Yorman and give it it's due. We have seen a potential major red flag IMO and this ranking should reflect that. And it seems like many others agree.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #48
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I understand that and give it it's due. I'm not saying he can't still be all we have hoped for him since he got here. But I'm not gonna ignore the valuable information I have gotten and seen myself 1st hand about Yorman and give it it's due. We have seen a potential major red flag IMO and this ranking should reflect that. And it seems like many others agree.
    Eh, I am not going to consider the attitude of an 18 year old a "Major Red Flag". It is simply too early for that IMO. Others can disagree, we all have our opinions.

  5. #49
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Eh, I am not going to consider the attitude of an 18 year old a "Major Red Flag". It is simply too early for that IMO. Others can disagree, we all have our opinions.
    If I keep agreeing with doug, someone check my backyard for a pod.

    way too soon to use maturity as an issue. You don't ignore it, but it doesn't detract from prospect status. now, if he was 24, maybe then it is an issue.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #50
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    Congrats on your opinion... It doesn't make it right though... If the Reds suddenly decide tomorrow that Grandal can't hack it as a catcher and move him to 1b, does it make him equally or more valuable than Mesoraco even if they put up similar numbers?

    not really close.

    Because one position is more valuable than the other.
    Yes, generally the starting pitcher position is more valuable than reliever, even closer.

    But that doesn't mean that ALL good pitching prospects should be starters.

    And it doesn't mean that a good closer prospect is unimportant.

  7. #51
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    way too soon to use maturity as an issue. You don't ignore it, but it doesn't detract from prospect status. now, if he was 24, maybe then it is an issue.
    I agree. Homer Bailey is proof that a player can improve their attitude. We tend to forget we are watching young men grow up before our eyes. All of those stupid things the rest of us do at the same age? These guys get to do it under public scrutiny.

  8. #52
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Yes, generally the starting pitcher position is more valuable than reliever, even closer.

    But that doesn't mean that ALL good pitching prospects should be starters.

    And it doesn't mean that a good closer prospect is unimportant.
    If a good pitching prospect can be both an effective starting pitcher and an effective relief pitcher, that pitching prospect should be utilized as a starting pitcher 100% of the time. That's the argument many of us are framing...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #53
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    If a good pitching prospect can be both an effective starting pitcher and an effective relief pitcher, that pitching prospect should be utilized as a starting pitcher 100% of the time. That's the argument many of us are framing...
    Papelbon says hi. so does Feliz. Joba says hello.

    all three were groomed as starters, all three are in the pen. They could have been effective starters. they are much better in relief. IMO it is a matter of mental makeup more than talent.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  10. #54
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Papelbon says hi. so does Feliz. Joba says hello.

    all three were groomed as starters, all three are in the pen. They could have been effective starters. they are much better in relief. IMO it is a matter of mental makeup more than talent.
    And I still think that the last two should have been starters and would have been of more value to their teams had they been developed properly as starting pitchers and remained there.

    Yes, both guys have better ERA's than they would have had as a starter, but I would take 185 innings of an ERA a few notches higher than 65 innings with an ERA a few notches lower. It is much easier to find quality relievers than quality starters.

  11. #55
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    I thought Papelbon couldn't stay healthy as a starting pitcher? That pretty much debunks his case.

    If all three of those guys could be effective starting pitchers then they should be starting pitchers...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  12. #56
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes, both guys have better ERA's than they would have had as a starter, but I would take 185 innings of an ERA a few notches higher than 65 innings with an ERA a few notches lower. It is much easier to find quality relievers than quality starters.
    Most pitchers lose ~half a run to a whole run off their ERA when they are moved the bullpen or something like that. I think?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. #57
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    KC61 and I disagree on paying Cordero. He would pay him 10 million a year and I wouldn't. But, if a Boxberger saves you that 10 million..... that makes him a very valuable guy. Even more valuable if you can flip him for prospects in 5 years.

    The only reason I haven't gone for Boxberger has been his inconsistency over the years.

  14. #58
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    It's not like the Reds system has quality prospects starters everywhere you look. None in the top five. Corcino at six and Stephenson (who has yet to throw his first pitch as a professional) at seven. Both at lower levels. Then it could be another gap before another starter makes the list. If you have a system chock full of starting prospects then, fine, move one to the pen. That's not the Reds system. From High A on up the people they had starting were, as a hole, nothing to get excited about.

  15. #59
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    KC61 and I disagree on paying Cordero. He would pay him 10 million a year and I wouldn't. But, if a Boxberger saves you that 10 million..... that makes him a very valuable guy. Even more valuable if you can flip him for prospects in 5 years.

    The only reason I haven't gone for Boxberger has been his inconsistency over the years.
    I agree that if Box or any other young reliever (or young player) can save you a big salary, that's a good thing. I think Box eventually can do that, although I don't think he's ready to close games in 2012.

    One quibble - I wouldn't pay Coco $10 M per year. I previously said on here that I max out at about $7.5 per year with Cordero.

    And of course if there is a good cheaper closer, I'd go for it. I'm not wedded to Coco, just wedded to having a good closer.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-03-2011 at 10:19 AM.

  16. #60
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #7 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I'm not wedded to Coco.
    Not that there's anything wrong with that.....


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