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Thread: Your Offseason

  1. #1
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    Your Offseason

    Two moves or less to "fix" the Reds.

    Three Rules
    Cannot add more than $10MM/year in payroll excluding extensions of current players.
    Cannot propose preposterous trades that only make sense for one side.
    No more James Shields proposals - too obvious and overplayed.

    I'll start:

    1. Trade Yonder Alonso and Tucker Barnhart to Seattle for Michael Pineda

    Seattle is interested in a masher to play 1B/DH, and Dave Cameron has proposed a large package that includes Pineda and five other players for Votto and Grandal. I say carve out the other five players and make it Pineda for Alonso and Barnhart. M's get their bopper and can use their $ elsewhere, Reds get their TOR starter under cheap control for several years. M's "sell high" on Pineda and replace him eventually with Paxton and/or Walker. Reds convert Alonso into the most affordable TOR on the market.

    2. Trade Aroldis Chapman, Yasmani Grandal, and Edinson Volquez to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez.

    Marlins are looking to make a splash in their new stadium, and this deal would allow them to bring in the Cuban Missile along with a Cuban-born catching prospect that would be their best since Charles Johnson. Volquez could have a bounce back year for them and join Sanchez and Johnson in what could be the most volatile rotation in the NL. Meanwhile the Reds get Hanley to split his season between 3B and LF in 2012 (Rolen plays 3B when Hanley in LF and Heisey/Francisco play LF when Hanley at 3B), and takeover full-time at 3B in 2013 once Rolen retires. Subtracting Chapman and Volquez's contracts allow the Reds to obtain Ramirez for <$10MM per.

    2b. If you think 2a violates Rule #2 (no preposterous trades), then I'd merely suggest signing Josh Willingham, Grady Sizemore, or Carlos Beltran to a 2 year deal at less than $10MM per year.

    Go into 2012 with the following team:

    Scenario A.....................Scenario B
    2B Phillips......................2B Phillips
    LF/3B H.Ramirez..............LF Willingham/Beltran/Sizemore
    1B Votto.......................1B Votto
    RF Bruce.......................RF Bruce
    CF Stubbs.....................CF Stubbs
    3B/LF Rolen/Heisey.........C Mesoraco
    C Mesoraco...................3B Rolen
    SS Cozart.....................SS Cozart

    SP Cueto
    SP Pineda
    SP Leake
    SP Bailey
    SP Arroyo
    (Travis Wood as spot starter)

    Looking into the future: With Alonso gone and assuming Votto won't/doesn't re-sign, I'd look into signing Kevin Youkilis to play 1B. Youk's deal is up after next year but the Sox have an option for '13. Either way, it is likely he would want to finish his career here and could be an adequate and (hometown) affordable replacement for Votto if/when he departs via FA (or trade before then).
    Last edited by Benihana; 11-03-2011 at 03:07 PM.
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    Re: Your Offseason

    I wouldn't trade any one of those players for Hanley Ramirez.

    He might bounce back, he might not. Considering his attitude issues, I wouldn't invest any recources betting that he will.

    I like the first trade (not sure The M's will) and 2b options.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Your Offseason

    I see the main issue as this: how do you get a good starting pitcher without trading Alonso?

    Alonso is the Reds only in-house viable answer in LF IMO.
    If the Reds trade Alonso for a pitcher, they then have a huge hole in LF.

    So the trick for Walt this off-season is to trade for a starting pitcher while keeping Yonder.

    This may not be feasible. Yonder may be the best trading piece Walt has (without dealing the team's stars). If Yonder must go in a deal, then LF is again a big problem.

    In addition to LF and SP the Reds will have to get a closer. IMO that will be Cordero, or a free agent, or a low-key trade. So I think closer will be covered.

    But the SP/LF/Alonso issue is the big one I see.

    That's my view of the off-season in a nutshell.

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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I see the main issue as this: how do you get a good starting pitcher without trading Alonso?

    Alonso is the Reds only in-house viable answer in LF IMO.
    If the Reds trade Alonso for a pitcher, they then have a huge hole in LF.

    So the trick for Walt this off-season is to trade for a starting pitcher while keeping Yonder.

    This may not be feasible. Yonder may be the best trading piece Walt has (without dealing the team's stars). If Yonder must go in a deal, then LF is again a big problem.

    In addition to LF and SP the Reds will have to get a closer. IMO that will be Cordero, or a free agent, or a second piece in a trade. So I think closer will be covered.

    But the SP/LF/Alonso issue is the big one I see.

    Sorry, I have nothing more specific.
    Or trade Alonso for an equally affordable pitcher (like Pineda) so that you can sign a LF in FA. There are three guys that fit the bill and should fall within a semi-reasonable price range in Willingham, Beltran and Sizemore. If the Reds can trade some of their young players including Alonso for a TOR affordable arm (M's and Rays appear to be the only two teams that may be willing to give one up- maybe the Braves also) then they could afford to sign one of the LFers.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Or trade Alonso for an equally affordable pitcher (like Pineda) so that you can sign a LF in FA. There are three guys that fit the bill and should fall within a semi-reasonable price range in Willingham, Beltran and Sizemore. If the Reds can trade some of their young players including Alonso for a TOR affordable arm (M's and Rays appear to be the only two teams that may be willing to give one up- maybe the Braves also) then they could afford to sign one of the LFers.
    Yes.

    I like Willingham but my concern is that he is a righty hitter. The Reds are so overloaded with righty bats. At least with Yonder, it adds a lefty.

    Beltran is a Boras guy, can't see it happening unless the demand for him is weak. As a switch hitter he would be ideal, if it's possible.

    Sizemore would be a big risk. He hasn't OPSd over .800 since 2008.

    If Alonso brings a real good pitcher back, I'd be ok with acquiring one of these three for LF. I'd love it to be Beltran.

    PS - if Francisco gets a lot of playing time at third, then the lefty/righty situation wouldn't be as much of a concern. Otherwise, the team is all right handed except for Votto and Bruce. All of Rolen, Cozart, Phillips, Hanigan, Mesoraco, Heisey, Stubbs, Sappelt, Cairo,Janish are right handed.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-03-2011 at 03:52 PM.

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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Yes.

    I like Willingham but my concern is that he is a righty hitter. The Reds are so overloaded with righty bats. At least with Yonder, it adds a lefty.

    Beltran is a Boras guy, can't see it happening unless the demand for him is weak. As a switch hitter he would be ideal, if it's possible.

    Sizemore would be a big risk. He hasn't OPSd over .800 since 2008.

    If Alonso brings a real good pitcher back, I'd be ok with acquiring one of these three for LF. I'd love it to be Beltran.

    PS - if Francisco gets a lot of playing time at third, then the lefty/righty situation wouldn't be as much of a concern. Otherwise, the team is all right handed except for Votto and Bruce. All of Rolen, Cozart, Phillips, Hanigan, Mesoraco, Heisey, Stubbs, Sappelt, Cairo,Janish are right handed.
    I agree- my priority would be 1. Beltran 2. Willingham 3. Sizemore

    And I also do believe that Francisco will see significant time at 3B, anywhere from 60-90 games likely. Therefore, I am not as concerned with the LH-RH issue.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I wouldn't trade any one of those players for Hanley Ramirez.

    He might bounce back, he might not. Considering his attitude issues, I wouldn't invest any recources betting that he will.

    I like the first trade (not sure The M's will) and 2b options.
    You wouldn't trade Edinson Volquez for Hanley Ramirez?

    If he bounces back, he's a top 5 player in the game. I'd take that chance everyday of the week.

    Another former Marlin slugger has some pretty big attitude issues as well. He's done OK - at least, on the field.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Your Offseason

    Stubbs, Volquez & Masset for Wandy. Wandy replaces the Volquez/Willis spot in the rotation.

    Get a vet for the pen. I'd like someone who could potentially close if our in house options bomb. However I would not overpay. Get the best arm we can for about $2M. The pen is Chapman, Lecure, Bray, new guy, Ondrusek, Arredondo, & Boxberger.
    .

  10. #9
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    Re: Your Offseason

    For the last time, the Marlins are not trading Hanley. It's getting old guys.

  11. #10
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    Re: Your Offseason

    I don't get why we can't trade for Shields? I think it's possible.

    Anyway, here goes:

    1. Trade Yonder Alonso ($1.4M in '12) and Travis Wood (min. $) to Seattle for Michael Pineda (min $).

    Save $1.4M, and gain a TOR guy. Keep Votto at 1B. Seattle gains a good hitter and a starting pitcher with potential and who has had some success at the major league level. Seattle is rebuilding, so they can afford to take the chance.

    2. Trade Stubbs (min. $), Volquez (arb. ~ $2M?), Masset (arb. ~ $2M) to Houston for Wandy Rodriguez ($10.5M).

    Add approximately $6M in payroll. Tell Houston gains Stubbs, and replaces a starter with a cheaper starter in Volquez. Houston is rebuilding, so they can afford to chance it with Volquez as he hopefully regains form after TJ surgery. Reds argue Masset needs a change in scenery and for the Reds to take on payroll, they need to unload additional payroll. Houston takes Masset to help out Reds overall payroll concerns.

    3. Trade Chapman ($4.7M), Grandal ($?), Bailey (arb. ~ $3M?), Neftali Soto (top player at AA), Chris Valaika (min.$) to the Marlins for Mike Stanton (min. $) and Steve Cishek (min. $).

    Marlins get the Cuban Missile and can do what they want with him. They also get #1 pick Grandal, major league starter Bailey also a former #1 pick, the Reds top double A player in Soto, and get another player in the mix for 2B/SS/3B in Valaika. Reds get their big bopper at minimum pay in Stanton, and bolster the bullpen with Cishek and his sub 3.00 e.r.a. Reds save roughly $7.1M or more. To pry the young and cheap Stanton away, the Reds have to overpay somewhat or Florida isn't interested.

    Lineup:
    2B Phillips
    SS Cozart
    1B Votto
    LF Stanton
    RF Bruce
    CF Heisey
    3B Rolen/Francisco
    C Hanigan/Mez

    Pineda
    Cueto
    W. Rodriguez
    Leake
    Arroyo

    Boxberger
    Cishek
    Bray
    Arredondo
    Lecure
    Ondrusek
    Horst/Fisher/Other
    Last edited by Vottomatic; 11-03-2011 at 06:49 PM.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #11
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    Re: Your Offseason

    Stanton isn't going anywhere either dude. I know the Marlins and how they work, and Stanton is't leaving. Morrison, on the other hand, could be traded. But I will guarantee that Hanley, Stanton nor Johnson are going anywhere.

  13. #12
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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    Stanton isn't going anywhere either dude. I know the Marlins and how they work, and Stanton is't leaving. Morrison, on the other hand, could be traded. But I will guarantee that Hanley, Stanton nor Johnson are going anywhere.
    I don't want Hanley or Johnson. Both make a ton of money that the Reds will never pay.

    I essentially sent them three #1 picks in Chapman, Grandal, and Bailey, and the Reds best double AA prospect, and a quality multi-purpose player with major league experience in Valaika. Frankly, I thought some people might say I overpaid.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #13
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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I don't want Hanley or Johnson. Both make a ton of money that the Reds will never pay.

    I essentially sent them three #1 picks in Chapman, Grandal, and Bailey, and the Reds best double AA prospect, and a quality multi-purpose player with major league experience in Valaika. Frankly, I thought some people might say I overpaid.
    Never said it wasn't a good package. It's a great package, it's just the Marlins aren't looking to trade Santon.

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    Re: Your Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    Stanton isn't going anywhere either dude. I know the Marlins and how they work, and Stanton is't leaving. Morrison, on the other hand, could be traded. But I will guarantee that Hanley, Stanton nor Johnson are going anywhere.
    Virtually anyone is available in this game for the right price. It's debatable whether or not we have the means or are willing to pay the price. But make no mistake no one on that team is completely untouchable but I'm guessing Stanton comes close. And furthermore if Hanley is untouchable they have lost their minds as his star has dimmed considerably.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  16. #15
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    Re: Your Offseason

    Stanton has only 2 full years in the majors, is 22 years old, and his numbers are Jay Bruce-esque.

    I think he's available for the right price. What that right price is, I have no idea.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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