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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

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  • RHP Brad Boxberger

    22 30.99%
  • LHP Tony Cingrani

    2 2.82%
  • RHP Drew Cisco

    0 0%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    6 8.45%
  • UT Brodie Greene

    0 0%
  • SS Didi Gregorius

    0 0%
  • LHP Ismael Guillon

    0 0%
  • OF Ryan LaMarre

    1 1.41%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • 2B Henry Rodriguez

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    8 11.27%
  • 3B Gabriel Rosa

    0 0%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    3 4.23%
  • 1B Neftali Soto

    16 22.54%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    13 18.31%
  • other (please list below)

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

  1. #16
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Box made the Rising Stars game in the AFL, showcasing the top prospects.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    I had Yorman at 7, still have him at 8, and will keep voting him till he's picked. I think he's being way undervalued here.

  4. #18
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think there is a chance he could be better than that. With that said, if he is ever over .800, I would be really surprised.
    All I'll say is that people should refer to Jose Altuve if they think Torreyes could consistently OPS anywhere near .800.

  5. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    All I'll say is that people should refer to Jose Altuve if they think Torreyes could consistently OPS anywhere near .800.
    I don't quite see the connection. Altuve is 21 years old and was rushed to the Majors. Not sure anything about him at this point in his career relates well to Torreyes.

  6. #20
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Tony Cingrani... Minor League Baseball's Short Season Starter of the Year

  7. #21
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Just a friendly reminder from last year: the voting is public, so there really isn't much need to declare who you're voting for and call it a post. It's the equivalent to typing "Yes" and clicking the 'Post Quick Reply' button. If you'd all like, I rephrase the questions as, "Who is RedsZone's #__ Prospect and Why?"
    Correct.

  8. #22
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    All I'll say is that people should refer to Jose Altuve if they think Torreyes could consistently OPS anywhere near .800.
    Altuve at age 17 (Venez): 343/429/441/870
    Torreyes at age 17 (Venez +): 370/434/564/999

    Altuve at 18 (rookie): 284/320/433/753
    Torreyes at 18 (A): 356/398/457/855

    Altuve wasn't within 100 points of Torreyes at either stop, playing (for much of the time) in lesser leagues. Don't really see the comparison.

  9. #23
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have Yorman ranked higher than #8, so he is an easy pick for me here. Too much upside for me to vote anyone else above him. I think at this point next year there are going to be plenty of people wondering why he was ranked so low.
    OR why we had 3 pitchers ranked so highly.

    Boxberger might make it 3 pitchers in a row. (I hope not but we'll see) I'm really not knocking them cuz they're all good prospects. I just don't know if I'd have any of them above some of the position players left.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  10. #24
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    I like Sappelt here. He's at least a very good 4th OF and may even be a MLB starter.

  11. #25
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Correct.
    Yes.

  12. #26
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    Altuve at age 17 (Venez): 343/429/441/870
    Torreyes at age 17 (Venez +): 370/434/564/999

    Altuve at 18 (rookie): 284/320/433/753
    Torreyes at 18 (A): 356/398/457/855

    Altuve wasn't within 100 points of Torreyes at either stop, playing (for much of the time) in lesser leagues. Don't really see the comparison.
    Honestly, when it comes to a sample that small, you could place a lot of the difference in BABIP. You also cherry-picked your stats in comparing their numbers at age 18 (not that you have much to choose from in Torreyes' case). If size and history are indicators, Altuve has more power potential than Torreyes. He has also displayed more plate discipline. Since those are the two main factors in determing OPS, I tend to think a lot of people would say he has the higher ceiling in terms of OPS. As prospects, I'd definitely take Torreyes over Altuve, but Torreyes is capable of only so much.

    In regards to Doug's comment, they're both undersized, aggressive at the plate, square the ball up well, have limited power, hit for a high average, have some speed, play solid defense, have a history of playing both third and second base, are both Venezuelan, are both young, etc. If I understand your post correctly, how you don't see a strong comparison is beyond me.

  13. #27
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Honestly, when it comes to a sample that small, you could place a lot of the difference in BABIP. You also cherry-picked your stats in comparing their numbers at age 18 (not that you have much to choose from in Torreyes' case). If size and history are indicators, Altuve has more power potential than Torreyes. He has also displayed more plate discipline. Since those are the two main factors in determing OPS, I tend to think a lot of people would say he has the higher ceiling in terms of OPS. As prospects, I'd definitely take Torreyes over Altuve, but Torreyes is capable of only so much.
    How did I cherry-pick my numbers at age 18? Since Torreyes was 18 this year, and it was his second year, their only comparable seasons are at ages 17 and 18. Those are the slash lines from those years.

    Your comment was, "All I'll say is that people should refer to Jose Altuve if they think Torreyes could consistently OPS anywhere near .800." I used the only stats available to show that Torreyes' OPS numbers are, indeed, much better than Altuve's at the same stage of their careers.

  14. #28
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    In regards to Doug's comment, they're both undersized, aggressive at the plate, square the ball up well, have limited power, hit for a high average, have some speed, play solid defense, have a history of playing both third and second base, are both Venezuelan, are both young, etc. If I understand your post correctly, how you don't see a strong comparison is beyond me.

    Where I get confused is how Altuve is a reason that Torreyes isn't going to do something. Altuve had 150 plate appearances at AA before being promoted to the Majors at age 21. He was incredibly rushed to the Majors and he has had about 3/5's of a season in the Majors at age 21 and you are using him as a cautionary tale. My point is that I just don't get how the comparison is good in terms of using him as such a tale, when its clear he was rushed and he is 21 years old.

  15. #29
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Where I get confused is how Altuve is a reason that Torreyes isn't going to do something. Altuve had 150 plate appearances at AA before being promoted to the Majors at age 21. He was incredibly rushed to the Majors and he has had about 3/5's of a season in the Majors at age 21 and you are using him as a cautionary tale. My point is that I just don't get how the comparison is good in terms of using him as such a tale, when its clear he was rushed and he is 21 years old.
    I think the recently deceased Matty Alou provides a good example of what Torreyes could become offensively even if his size prevents him from having much pop at the major league level. With the great reports we've heard about him defensively at 2B, that is a really good player. If he can bring double digit HR power to the mix, its an all star. I have Torreyes in my upper echelon of prospects at number six, just in front of the gap that separates the top 6 from the next 7 to 9 guys who I have rated in the second tier (and the even bigger gap to the next tier).

    That said, I went for Sappelt here (who I have ranked at number 4 personally). I'm less a believer in the great tools guys until they show the baseball skills in their performance. Its why I have Y-Rod, Hamilton and Stephenson in that second tier behind the top 6.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-04-2011 at 04:11 AM.
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  16. #30
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think the recently deceased Matty Alou provides a good example of what Torreyes could become offensively even if his size prevents him from having much pop at the major league level. With the great reports we've heard about him defensively at 2B, that is a really good player. If he can bring double digit HR power to the mix, its an all star. I have Torreyes in my upper echelon of prospects at number six, just in front of the gap that separates the top 6 from the next 7 to 9 guys who I have rated in the second tier (and the even bigger gap to the next tier).

    That said, I went for Sappelt here (who I have ranked at number 4 personally). I'm less a believer in the great tools guys until they show the baseball skills in their performance. Its why I have Y-Rod, Hamilton and Stephenson in that second tier behind the top 6.
    While I quibble about your rankings (I have Torreyes ahead of Sappelt), I see your point.

    My argument for Torreyes is that he hit really, really well at a very young age in a tough league on hitters.

    That's rarer than Redszone seems to think it is.

    He's also a plus defensive player at a key position, which shouldn't be overlooked. He also has plus baseball instincts, power that'll play at the major league level, and plus work ethic, as supported by scout musings.

    The only negative, really, is his size.
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