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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

Voters
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  • RHP Brad Boxberger

    22 30.99%
  • LHP Tony Cingrani

    2 2.82%
  • RHP Drew Cisco

    0 0%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    6 8.45%
  • UT Brodie Greene

    0 0%
  • SS Didi Gregorius

    0 0%
  • LHP Ismael Guillon

    0 0%
  • OF Ryan LaMarre

    1 1.41%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • 2B Henry Rodriguez

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    8 11.27%
  • 3B Gabriel Rosa

    0 0%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    3 4.23%
  • 1B Neftali Soto

    16 22.54%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    13 18.31%
  • other (please list below)

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

  1. #31
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Joe Morgan was very small too. What was he, 5-7 and 155 lbs. in his prime?

    I think Torreyes will be great and I struggled with not ranking him higher. I think he's next in line for me at #9.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Joe Morgan was very small too.
    So were Dustin Pedroia, Omar Vizquel, and Miguel Tejada at the same age Torreyes is right now.

    98% (IIRC) of all males really blossom between the ages of 18-21. With weight training, science, nutrition supplements, and the natural progression of the body, Torreyes should be able to continue to display pretty much the same power he's shown up until now physically.

    It helps that his hit tool is so high. (Much higher than Altuve's, the same little guy he often gets compared to.) The higher the hit tool, the more likely he can find a gap or three and raise that OPS higher.

    Conservatively, he's a 750-ish OPS bat. But his ceiling is much, much higher than that.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  4. #33
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post

    Conservatively, he's a 750-ish OPS bat. But his ceiling is much, much higher than that.
    Hypothetically, what is his offensive ceiling?

    I just don't see his power being enough to be "much, much higher" than .750 OPS. Of course, we may have a different definition of "much, much higher" which is why I am asking. What is the line you see as his ceiling, with a doubles/triples/HR line added in?

  5. #34
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    340/410/470/880

    25-35 doubles
    5-7 triples
    10-15 dingers
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  6. #35
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Sappelt...but since he has no shot at winning I'll go with Soto who is in this area for me.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  7. #36
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Sappelt...but since he has no shot at winning I'll go with Soto who is in this area for me.
    I didn't even see him on here -- I would have voted for him. It would be interesting to see how voting would be different if the players were listed in order of the voting last year
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #37
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    I still can't believe Box is going to take this when you still have Yorman, Soto, Torreyes, and Sappelt. I wish more Box supports would speak up and explain how they can rank him above those 4 guys.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

  9. #38
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    340/410/470/880

    25-35 doubles
    5-7 triples
    10-15 dingers
    That is a very wide range of power there. From the bottom end to the top end of that spectrum, we are talking about a difference in about 50-60 points of slugging. If we go with the low end of 25/5/10, which is still pretty strong for someone his size and a 6% walk rate and a 10% strikeout rate, we are looking at these lines given the different BABIP rates over 600 PA's:

    Code:
    PA	AB	h	2b	3b	hr	bb	k	hbp	sh	sf	babip	avg	obp	slg
    600	552	150	25	5	10	36	60	5	5	2	.289	.272	.321	.389
    600	552	155	25	5	10	36	60	5	5	2	.300	.281	.329	.399
    600	552	160	25	5	10	36	60	5	5	2	.310	.290	.338	.408
    600	552	165	25	5	10	36	60	5	5	2	.320	.299	.346	.417
    600	552	170	25	5	10	36	60	5	5	2	.331	.308	.355	.426
    600	552	175	25	5	10	36	60	5	5	2	.341	.317	.363	.435
    At the low end, he isn't coming close to your projected line with those rates. So lets look at if he is at the high end of that spectrum in power.

    Code:
    PA	AB	h	2b	3b	hr	bb	k	hbp	sh	sf	babip	avg	obp	slg
    600	552	155	35	7	15	36	60	5	5	2	.292	.281	.329	.451
    600	552	160	35	7	15	36	60	5	5	2	.303	.290	.338	.460
    600	552	165	35	7	15	36	60	5	5	2	.313	.299	.346	.469
    600	552	170	35	7	15	36	60	5	5	2	.324	.308	.355	.478
    600	552	175	35	7	15	36	60	5	5	2	.334	.317	.363	.487
    600	552	180	35	7	15	36	60	5	5	2	.344	.326	.371	.496
    We get a bit closer here, though the average isn't there like you said without a very likely unsustainable BABIP over .360. His walk rate would still need quite a boost to reach the marks you listed as well.

    So, am I off in my thinking here with his walk rate (6%) and strikeout rate (10%) compared to what you were thinking?

  10. #39
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachunk View Post
    I still can't believe Box is going to take this when you still have Yorman, Soto, Torreyes, and Sappelt. I wish more Box supports would speak up and explain how they can rank him above those 4 guys.
    Agreed. And I feel like I really like Boxberger. But I still don't have him close to the Top 10.

  11. #40
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachunk View Post
    I still can't believe Box is going to take this when you still have Yorman, Soto, Torreyes, and Sappelt. I wish more Box supports would speak up and explain how they can rank him above those 4 guys.
    Yep, having all 3 of Corcino, Stephenson, and Boxberger ranked ahead of all 5 of Yorman, Soto, Torreyes, Sappelt, and Frazier is something I just don't get. It's almost like RedsZone wants the perception of the system to be that it's more balanced than it really is and doesn't want to acknowledge that the strength of the system is easily position players.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  12. #41
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Yep, having all 3 of Corcino, Stephenson, and Boxberger ranked ahead of all 5 of Yorman, Soto, Torreyes, Sappelt, and Frazier is something I just don't get. It's almost like RedsZone wants the perception of the system to be that it's more balanced than it really is and doesn't want to acknowledge that the strength of the system is easily position players.
    I have Corcino ranked ahead of all of those guys and Stephenson ahead of all of them but Yorman. But, I also have Boxberger ranked behind them all.

  13. #42
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have Corcino ranked ahead of all of those guys and Stephenson ahead of all of them but Yorman. But, I also have Boxberger ranked behind them all.
    And there ya go. I get that you like Corcino but you're saying that you had one of the position players ahead of one of the pitchers and ALL of the position players ahead of Box. It just makes me wonder how many people had 3 pitchers in their top 8.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 11-05-2011 at 01:16 PM. Reason: replaced 'I' with 'It' (woops)
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  14. #43
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    And there ya go. I get that you like Corcino but you're saying that you had one of the position players ahead of one of the pitchers and ALL of the position players ahead of Box. I just makes me wonder how many people had 3 pitchers in their top 8.
    I imagine those who have it that way place a lot of value on individual relievers.

  15. #44
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    And there ya go. I get that you like Corcino but you're saying that you had one of the position players ahead of one of the pitchers and ALL of the position players ahead of Box. I just makes me wonder how many people had 3 pitchers in their top 8.
    One: Corcino at number 4.

  16. #45
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Boxberger, Corcino, Stephenson 7, 8, 9 respectively.

    Its not just about Starter versus Reliever. Its about liklihood of being a positive. I think its a pretty good bet that in the next couple of years that Boxberger will come up and successfully fill a role that the team spent $12 Million on in 2011. That would seem to have a lot of value that I think gets short changed here.

    Of course I view prospects differently than most on here do. I have Billy Hamilton at number 10 while Zach Cozart sits at number 2 on my list.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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