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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

Voters
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  • RHP Brad Boxberger

    22 30.99%
  • LHP Tony Cingrani

    2 2.82%
  • RHP Drew Cisco

    0 0%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    6 8.45%
  • UT Brodie Greene

    0 0%
  • SS Didi Gregorius

    0 0%
  • LHP Ismael Guillon

    0 0%
  • OF Ryan LaMarre

    1 1.41%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • 2B Henry Rodriguez

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    8 11.27%
  • 3B Gabriel Rosa

    0 0%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    3 4.23%
  • 1B Neftali Soto

    16 22.54%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    13 18.31%
  • other (please list below)

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

  1. #46
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I imagine those who have it that way place a lot of value on individual relievers.
    Maybe some feel that it would be a knock against a pitcher to be ranked just outside the top 10 instead of inside the top 10.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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  3. #47
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Boxberger, Corcino, Stephenson 7, 8, 9 respectively.

    Its not just about Starter versus Reliever. Its about liklihood of being a positive. I think its a pretty good bet that in the next couple of years that Boxberger will come up and successfully fill a role that the team spent $12 Million on in 2011. That would seem to have a lot of value that I think gets short changed here.

    Of course I view prospects differently than most on here do. I have Billy Hamilton at number 10 while Zach Cozart sits at number 2 on my list.
    Sappelt and Frazier are both pretty safe bets to be a positive, imo. And the fact that the Reds overpaid for Cordero has something to do with Box POSSIBLY replacing a player that was paid $12 million.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 11-05-2011 at 01:31 PM.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  4. #48
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Sappelt and Frazier are both pretty safe bets to be a positive, imo. And the fact that the Reds overpaid for Cordero has something to do with Box POSSIBLY replacing a player that was paid $12 million.
    I see Frazier as a back-up player. He can be a good one, but is mostly an interchangeable part once his price gets above $3 Million or so.

    I have Sappelt at number 4.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-05-2011 at 01:59 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #49
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Regardless, I think the chances of Sappelt/Frazier helping the Reds are at least a little better than Box being the next Reds closer.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  6. #50
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Regardless, I think the chances of Sappelt/Frazier helping the Reds are at least a little better than Box being the next Reds closer.
    Agree where Sappelt is concerned its why I have him at number 4. Frazier can contribute, but the value is a lot more limited. Its not just the Reds who paid 8 figures for a closer.

    Even as a set-up man or a decent middle reliever Boxberger would cost more to replace than a utility player. Even the cost conscious teams like the A's paid middle relievers $4 and $5 Million per year which is more than what a utility player should get.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #51
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Agree where Sappelt is concerned its why I have him at number 4. Frazier can contribute, but the value is a lot more limited. Its not just the Reds who paid 8 figures for a closer.

    Even as a set-up man or a decent middle reliever Boxberger would cost more to replace than a utility player. Even the cost conscious teams like the A's paid middle relievers $4 and $5 Million per year which is more than what a utility player should get.
    I think we can agree that Frazier can be a good backup. I'm just not convinced that more is out of the question.

    Yes, the Reds aren't the only team that paid a premium price for the label of 'closer'. And, yes, some middle relievers get paid alot too. Are we 100% sure that Box will fill either role for the Reds though? I'm not.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  8. #52
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    I think we can agree that Frazier can be a good backup. I'm just not convinced that more is out of the question.

    Yes, the Reds aren't the only team that paid a premium price for the label of 'closer'. And, yes, some middle relievers get paid alot too. Are we 100% sure that Box will fill either role for the Reds though? I'm not.
    I'm hopeful for Frazier, and he'd be on my 25 man roster to open 2012 barring other moves, but the fact is he's likely to hit like a MI with a bit of occassional power added while playing defense like a corner player. He's not more certain of being valuable than Boxberger IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  9. #53
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm hopeful for Frazier, and he'd be on my 25 man roster to open 2012 barring other moves, but the fact is he's likely to hit like a MI with a bit of occassional power added while playing defense like a corner player. He's not more certain of being valuable than Boxberger IMO.
    Frazier looks like he could be a good 3rd baseman for 1/2 the season (since Rolen will miss time) and possibly be the eventual replacement. To me IF that happens that would be worth more than the ceiling for Box. Granted, alot of that will depend on how much someone values a closer. But, we also already know that Frazier can be a backup. Right now, we're still hoping that Box can make the transition to the bigs to at least fill a supporting role.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  10. #54
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Brad Boxberger does not currently have the required control to either be a setup man or closer for the Reds. I think once he gets some more experience at AAA he will be ready but at the moment, he does not have necessary control.

  11. #55
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Brad Boxberger does not currently have the required control to either be a setup man or closer for the Reds. I think once he gets some more experience at AAA he will be ready but at the moment, he does not have necessary control.
    Box hasn't been in pro ball very long and has progressed to AAA. One more year of AAA ball should get him ready.

  12. #56
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Box hasn't been in pro ball very long and has progressed to AAA. One more year of AAA ball should get him ready.
    2 years to be exact... and one was terrible.

    He showed great improvement last season, but he also developed a scary trend (as a potential GABP RP) of becoming more of a flyball pitcher than he was in the previous season... 1.57 GO/AO in 2010 to 1.14 in 2011...

    And the difference in K/BB in 2011 @ Carolina vs Lou?
    4.39 vs. 2.4

    I don't get the love.
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  13. #57
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    2 years to be exact... and one was terrible.

    He showed great improvement last season, but he also developed a scary trend (as a potential GABP RP) of becoming more of a flyball pitcher than he was in the previous season... 1.57 GO/AO in 2010 to 1.14 in 2011...

    And the difference in K/BB in 2011 @ Carolina vs Lou?
    4.39 vs. 2.4

    I don't get the love.
    Not quite. Half of a season was terrible. And I think we can wipe that one away given that it was his first real taste in the bullpen full time and he clearly showed he adjusted much better this year to being a bullpen arm.

    There is a problem in using GO/AO comparisons.... it only accounts for balls turned into outs.

    In 2010, Boxberger had a GB rate of 47%. In 2011, it was 52%. So he went from a guy who was getting a slightly above average rate of grounders to a guy who was well above average at getting grounders.

    The walk rate is an issue that has been addressed some as a concern for most of us. It is probably the reason that most guys have him outside of their top 10 (I know it is one of the reasons he is outside of my top 10). But there is plenty to like about him. He has a 91-94 MPH rising fastball that touches 95-97, a high 80's slider and outstanding strikeout numbers. He also throws a change up.

  14. #58
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Not quite. Half of a season was terrible. And I think we can wipe that one away given that it was his first real taste in the bullpen full time and he clearly showed he adjusted much better this year to being a bullpen arm.

    There is a problem in using GO/AO comparisons.... it only accounts for balls turned into outs.

    In 2010, Boxberger had a GB rate of 47%. In 2011, it was 52%. So he went from a guy who was getting a slightly above average rate of grounders to a guy who was well above average at getting grounders.

    The walk rate is an issue that has been addressed some as a concern for most of us. It is probably the reason that most guys have him outside of their top 10 (I know it is one of the reasons he is outside of my top 10). But there is plenty to like about him. He has a 91-94 MPH rising fastball that touches 95-97, a high 80's slider and outstanding strikeout numbers. He also throws a change up.
    Good point on GO/AO... You're 100% correct.

    And I'm not trying to completely dog the guy... It's just the fact that if I'm voting (and defending like others in these threads) a RP prospect over some of the offensive talent left on the board, he better have VERY few flaws if any... And Boxberger isn't that guy...

    He's got a solid arsenal, but as a reliever I find it impossible to place him in front of Soto/Rodriguez/Sappelt/& possibly even Rosa...
    2010 Mock Draft Selections (picking for Rays)

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  15. #59
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    Good point on GO/AO... You're 100% correct.

    And I'm not trying to completely dog the guy... It's just the fact that if I'm voting (and defending like others in these threads) a RP prospect over some of the offensive talent left on the board, he better have VERY few flaws if any... And Boxberger isn't that guy...

    He's got a solid arsenal, but as a reliever I find it impossible to place him in front of Soto/Rodriguez/Sappelt/& possibly even Rosa...
    I am almost with you there. I think he has a fantastic arsenal. And I am also with you on placing him in front of those guys. I ranked him directly ahead of Rosa.

  16. #60
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #8 prospect?

    Bump
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    Bryce Brentz
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    Rick Hague


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