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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #241
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig View Post
    Wonder if Joe was on that Second Mile board
    He was on the honororary board along with names like Lou Holtz, Cal Ripken, Matt Millen, Mark Wahlberg and others.
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  3. #242
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Now that Joe has been fired I wonder if the likes of ESPN, SI, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. will cover the actual trial to the extent they covered Joe. The sad truth is they aggressive media got their wish, Joe Pa to be fired, but will be long gone when it comes to actual reporting on Sandusky and the actual victims. I imagine you will see a blurb on the bottom line a year or so from now saying that Sandusky has been found guilty.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Now that Joe has been fired I wonder if the likes of ESPN, SI, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. will cover the actual trial to the extent they covered Joe. The sad truth is they aggressive media got their wish, Joe Pa to be fired, but will be long gone when it comes to actual reporting on Sandusky and the actual victims. I imagine you will see a blurb on the bottom line a year or so from now saying that Sandusky has been found guilty.
    I bet this story will have some traction if it has as many victims as feared. The lawsuits alone could crippple Penn State if Sandusky used the shower as his lair and its reasonable to believe that Penn State officials should have done more. This is a big story regardless of Paterno.

    Paterno fired.... Who thought they'd ever hear that?
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  5. #244
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Now that Joe has been fired I wonder if the likes of ESPN, SI, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. will cover the actual trial to the extent they covered Joe. The sad truth is they aggressive media got their wish, Joe Pa to be fired, but will be long gone when it comes to actual reporting on Sandusky and the actual victims. I imagine you will see a blurb on the bottom line a year or so from now saying that Sandusky has been found guilty.
    Are you suggesting, somehow, that Joe Paterno has been unfairly treated here? Because if you are, that's pretty laughable. He was given a direct, first-hand, eyewitness account of a child being raped inside his locker room by a person who he knew very well. He knew this person had unrestricted access to the University (including an office on campus). More damning -- he KNEW that this man ran a charitable organization that put him in direct contact with young children every single day.

    He did not contact the police.

    Let that sink in for a second. Joe Paterno knew that a man who brought kids with him on road trips, brought kids with him onto campus, and let kids stay at his house. And he said NOTHING to any police agency. He said NOTHING to child protective services. He said NOTHING to the other people who attach their names to this charitable organization. He sat silently and allowed this predator to continue associating with kids every, single day.

    Or, you can choose to be a Joe Paterno enabler and believe that he did his due diligence and assumed that the allegations where unfounded. OK. Fine. Then why in the hell did he let McQueary remain on staff? If you're to assume that Paterno believed that the police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing, then that means you believe he allowed a member of his staff to remain who falsely accused someone of being a pedophile -- and not just anyone, a trusted member of Paterno's inner circle for 30 years.

    If someone called you, shaken up, and told you that he just saw one of your close associates raping a child and you later found out that he was lying, would you ever associate with that person again? Would you employ that person? Would you trust part of YOUR livelihood (football success) to that person?

    B.S.

    Joe Paterno got EXACTLY what he deserved in this case. How many more victims did Sandusky have after this incident? Their blood is on the hands of Joe Paterno and Penn State University. How many past victims had to live with the shame these extra 10 years because Joe Paterno never brought this scumbag to justice? Their pain is on Joe Paterno's hands.

    Sandusky is a monster. There is no question about that. He deserves the death penalty in my mind, and it's a shame that he can never know the horror he inflicted on these innocent victims. Paterno isn't a monster -- he's something far more insidious: a man who was willing to look the other way. He may never see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell, but I hope his life from this point forward is a personal hell tormented by the thoughts of all the children he could have helped but failed.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 11-10-2011 at 09:08 AM.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Are you suggesting, somehow, that Joe Paterno has been unfairly treated here? Because if you are, that's pretty laughable. He was given a direct, first-hand, eyewitness account of a child being raped inside his locker room by a person who he knew very well. He knew this person had unrestricted access to the University (including an office on campus). More damning -- he KNEW that this man ran a charitable organization that put him in direct contact with young children every single day.

    He did not contact the police.

    Let that sink in for a second. Joe Paterno knew that a man who brought kids with him on road trips, brought kids with him onto campus, and let kids stay at his house. And he said NOTHING to any police agency. He said NOTHING to child protective services. He said NOTHING to the other people who attach their names to this charitable organization. He sat silently and allowed this predator to continue associating with kids every, single day.

    Or, you can choose to be a Joe Paterno enabler and believe that he did his due diligence and assumed that the allegations where unfounded. OK. Fine. Then why in the hell did he let McQueary remain on staff? If you're to assume that Paterno believed that the police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing, then that means you believe he allowed a member of his staff to remain who falsely accused someone of being a pedophile -- and not just anyone, a trusted member of Paterno's inner circle for 30 years.

    If someone called you, shaken up, and told you that he just saw one of your close associates raping a child and you later found out that he was lying, would you ever associate with that person again? Would you employ that person? Would you trust part of YOUR livelihood (football success) to that person?

    B.S.

    Joe Paterno got EXACTLY what he deserved in this case. How many more victims did Sandusky have after this incident? Their blood is on the hands of Joe Paterno and Penn State University. How many past victims had to live with the shame these extra 10 years because Joe Paterno never brought this scumbag to justice? Their pain is on Joe Paterno's hands.

    Sandusky is a monster. There is no question about that. He deserves the death penalty in my mind, and it's a shame that he can never know the horror he inflicted on these innocent victims. Paterno isn't a monster -- he's something far more insidious: a man who was willing to look the other way. He may never see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell, but I hope his life from this point forward is a personal hell tormented by the thoughts of all the children he could have helped but failed.
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  7. #246
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Paterno and the PSU adminsitration provided Sandusky his inner sanctum.

    BTW, Paterno was Sandusky's supervisor even after he retired.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Are you suggesting, somehow, that Joe Paterno has been unfairly treated here? Because if you are, that's pretty laughable. He was given a direct, first-hand, eyewitness account of a child being raped inside his locker room by a person who he knew very well. He knew this person had unrestricted access to the University (including an office on campus). More damning -- he KNEW that this man ran a charitable organization that put him in direct contact with young children every single day.

    He did not contact the police.

    Let that sink in for a second. Joe Paterno knew that a man who brought kids with him on road trips, brought kids with him onto campus, and let kids stay at his house. And he said NOTHING to any police agency. He said NOTHING to child protective services. He said NOTHING to the other people who attach their names to this charitable organization. He sat silently and allowed this predator to continue associating with kids every, single day.

    Or, you can choose to be a Joe Paterno enabler and believe that he did his due diligence and assumed that the allegations where unfounded. OK. Fine. Then why in the hell did he let McQueary remain on staff? If you're to assume that Paterno believed that the police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing, then that means you believe he allowed a member of his staff to remain who falsely accused someone of being a pedophile -- and not just anyone, a trusted member of Paterno's inner circle for 30 years.

    If someone called you, shaken up, and told you that he just saw one of your close associates raping a child and you later found out that he was lying, would you ever associate with that person again? Would you employ that person? Would you trust part of YOUR livelihood (football success) to that person?

    B.S.

    Joe Paterno got EXACTLY what he deserved in this case. How many more victims did Sandusky have after this incident? Their blood is on the hands of Joe Paterno and Penn State University. How many past victims had to live with the shame these extra 10 years because Joe Paterno never brought this scumbag to justice? Their pain is on Joe Paterno's hands.

    Sandusky is a monster. There is no question about that. He deserves the death penalty in my mind, and it's a shame that he can never know the horror he inflicted on these innocent victims. Paterno isn't a monster -- he's something far more insidious: a man who was willing to look the other way. He may never see the inside of a courtroom or a jail cell, but I hope his life from this point forward is a personal hell tormented by the thoughts of all the children he could have helped but failed.


    One more in a long line of excellent posts, my friend.

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    CBS Chicago reporter Dan Bernstein (@dan_berstein) claims that there is evidence that there were/are other men at the Second Mile that were having inappropriate relationships with children.
    I live in the Philly area and this thing is about to get a lot worse. The rumblings are that for lack of a better word Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors of his foundation.

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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by krm1580 View Post
    I live in the Philly area and this thing is about to get a lot worse. The rumblings are that for lack of a better word Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors of his foundation.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry...donors-2011-11
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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Whoa. That is some shocking stuff.

  12. #251
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Wow, I hope to god these rumors prove false. I can't even wrap my mind around how something like that could ever happen in this country, especially coming out of a high quality university like Penn State.

    I want to cry over this and it's making me sick to my stomach.
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  13. #252
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    If you've ever actually experienced dealing with allegations that a young child has been sexually abused (and I have, numerous times, as part of my job), I can tell you quite conclusively that you don't simply put it off your plate.

    Because, here is what Joe Paterno was told (in effect):

    "I saw your former assistant coach, who worked for you for 30 years, who runs a charitable organization for young children and associates with young children on a daily basis, and who maintains an office on campus that he visits every day, anally raping a 10 year old in your football team's locker room."

    If you can put that out of your mind and assume it's been taken care of just because you don't hear anything else about it, God help you as a human being.

    And that's not even getting into the fact that if you DON'T believe that's true, you continued to employ the accuser on your staff? Really? You call an assistant coach of 30 years a pedophile and get to keep your job? If Paterno really believed Sandusky was innocent, that kid would've been on the next bus out of Happy Valley for lying.
    Agreed, I'll go even further.

    Sometime in 1998, it was brought to the attention that Jerry Sandusky was acting "strange" around children in the 2nd mile, to the point of showering, perhaps worse. It was investigated internally to the point where Jerry Sandusky "retired" in 1999. Now perhaps there was nothing credible, perhaps in blind loyalty and not wanting to believe the possible full extent of what may have happened, you buy Jerry's story that they were "just horsing around" in the shower. Perhaps you cling to it being more innocent that it looks, but you let him out of his job and he promises not to repeat it. OK, bad enough, but I can at least see how JoePa and Penn state get to that point.

    Now 4 years later, McQueary comes to your office with his father and tells you he saw something again, perhaps he doesn't even describe the full extent, but you can bet your hind end, that when McQueary went to the AD/VP of PSU he was forced to describe the full extent of what he saw. There is no way in heck, knowing the instances of 1998 that it wasn't related back to JoePa. Heck there is little doubt in my mind that JoePa was in that meeting, as support for McQueary who had to be shaken by the whole thing to hear the full version for himself, straight from the horses mouth.

    So what happens then? It goes no where. Perhaps the VP told JoePa that they'd handle it and he believed them. So what does JoePa, as the most powerful man on campus do with Jerry Sanduski? He allows him to continue using the facilities. He continues to allow his student athletes to be connected to Jerry and the 2nd mile. Paul Pusloski (sp?) was on Mike & Mike this morning, paul was a freshman in 2003. I doubt Paul knew any of the allegations of Sandusky, but he came to campus at a time when Jerry was allegedly bared from using the campus for the 2nd mile or being around young men. When asked if he knew Jerry, Paul said yes; everyone on the team knew if they wanted to do any community volunteering, they could go to Jerry and help with the 2nd mile program.

    So now JoePa knows of 2 instances, 1 strong enough to force him to resign, then the McQueary instance, and yet he still directs his 17, 18, 19 year old players to help 2nd mile, a charity still being run by Jerry Sandusky. Jerry is still around using the facilities, around the program to some extent.

    Fast forward again while ignoring several more boys that have been vialated by Sandusky to sometime over the last year when the Grand Jury report is being formed. Its not like they interviewed JoePa, the AD, McQueary, etc... on saturday evening, it happened months, perhaps even over the entire prior year, so even if they put it out of their mind, it was brought back to their attention full bore and it was obvious the charges were serious enough to get investigators involved, yet there he was, Jerry Sandusky, using the work out facilities for the football program on Friday.

    So JoePa had not 1, not 2, but at least 3 concrete chances, and perhaps many more to tell Sandusky to go to hell and keep away from campus and his program, but instead Jerry was still around as recently as friday. Its not like any Joe Schmoe can walk in and use the football facilities, if its anything like what I've seen at Ohio State, security is tight. Certainly somebody as recognizable to the PSU program as Sandusky is going to stick out like a sore thumb. If Joe doesn't want you around the program, you're not getting thru those doors, you're not working out in "his" facilities.

    Legally, Joe may have done the bear minimum to prevent getting charged legally. Morarly, as the face of both the program and largely the university he failed farther than any man previously, save arguable Dave Bliss. At best, JoePa put his head in the sand and refused to acknowledge the information that had been brought to his attention on more than 1 occasion.

    My opinion, and perhaps my opininon only, Joe decided to look the other way in order to protect the image of his program and school. Joe knew what this would do to the image of his program. Keeping in mind that the school president asked Joe to resign around 2001-2002 following several sub-.500 seasons and Joe refused and kept on coaching until yesterday, it was obvious Joe had more power than the school president. In my opinion, Joe didn't want this to see the light of day, because above hurting the image of the program and school, he likely knew the public outrage would lead to his forced resignation.

    How people defend this man or actions in this case are beyond me. The more that comes out, the more Joe looks culpable. I don't care how many games the man has won, how many building he's built on campus or money he's donated to charity, when the rubber meet the road, and Joe had the opportunity to put an end to arguable the worst crime a man can commit, JoePa failed miserably.

  14. #253
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    What is very clear to me is that the conspirators knew very well that this day would not be pretty and chose to defer it as long as possible. The chiefs get to continue making their six and seven figure salaries, Paterno gets to continue piling up wins. Sounds like a future episode of American Greed.

    They all should lose every dime earned during that period and every win should be vacated for Paterno. Curley and Schultz need to spend the rest of their lives in jail, just like all the victims are forced to do. Perhaps Paterno should change his name to Larry and Schultz is now known as Mo, because these are certainly the three stooges.

    While these men are also victims in the sense that they are now caught up in the web of someone else's wrongdoing, thankfully our law recognizes the serious guilt of doing nothing or lying about what you do know when you know information involving a crime.
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    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I pray what is in that story is not true. I sincerely pray, words can not even describe my feelings if anything similar was actually happening amongst highly visiable people in america.

  16. #255
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    Agreed, I'll go even further.

    Sometime in 1998, it was brought to the attention that Jerry Sandusky was acting "strange" around children in the 2nd mile, to the point of showering, perhaps worse. It was investigated internally to the point where Jerry Sandusky "retired" in 1999. Now perhaps there was nothing credible, perhaps in blind loyalty and not wanting to believe the possible full extent of what may have happened, you buy Jerry's story that they were "just horsing around" in the shower. Perhaps you cling to it being more innocent that it looks, but you let him out of his job and he promises not to repeat it. OK, bad enough, but I can at least see how JoePa and Penn state get to that point.

    Now 4 years later, McQueary comes to your office with his father and tells you he saw something again, perhaps he doesn't even describe the full extent, but you can bet your hind end, that when McQueary went to the AD/VP of PSU he was forced to describe the full extent of what he saw. There is no way in heck, knowing the instances of 1998 that it wasn't related back to JoePa. Heck there is little doubt in my mind that JoePa was in that meeting, as support for McQueary who had to be shaken by the whole thing to hear the full version for himself, straight from the horses mouth.

    So what happens then? It goes no where. Perhaps the VP told JoePa that they'd handle it and he believed them. So what does JoePa, as the most powerful man on campus do with Jerry Sanduski? He allows him to continue using the facilities. He continues to allow his student athletes to be connected to Jerry and the 2nd mile. Paul Pusloski (sp?) was on Mike & Mike this morning, paul was a freshman in 2003. I doubt Paul knew any of the allegations of Sandusky, but he came to campus at a time when Jerry was allegedly bared from using the campus for the 2nd mile or being around young men. When asked if he knew Jerry, Paul said yes; everyone on the team knew if they wanted to do any community volunteering, they could go to Jerry and help with the 2nd mile program.

    So now JoePa knows of 2 instances, 1 strong enough to force him to resign, then the McQueary instance, and yet he still directs his 17, 18, 19 year old players to help 2nd mile, a charity still being run by Jerry Sandusky. Jerry is still around using the facilities, around the program to some extent.

    Fast forward again while ignoring several more boys that have been vialated by Sandusky to sometime over the last year when the Grand Jury report is being formed. Its not like they interviewed JoePa, the AD, McQueary, etc... on saturday evening, it happened months, perhaps even over the entire prior year, so even if they put it out of their mind, it was brought back to their attention full bore and it was obvious the charges were serious enough to get investigators involved, yet there he was, Jerry Sandusky, using the work out facilities for the football program on Friday.

    So JoePa had not 1, not 2, but at least 3 concrete chances, and perhaps many more to tell Sandusky to go to hell and keep away from campus and his program, but instead Jerry was still around as recently as friday. Its not like any Joe Schmoe can walk in and use the football facilities, if its anything like what I've seen at Ohio State, security is tight. Certainly somebody as recognizable to the PSU program as Sandusky is going to stick out like a sore thumb. If Joe doesn't want you around the program, you're not getting thru those doors, you're not working out in "his" facilities.

    Legally, Joe may have done the bear minimum to prevent getting charged legally. Morarly, as the face of both the program and largely the university he failed farther than any man previously, save arguable Dave Bliss. At best, JoePa put his head in the sand and refused to acknowledge the information that had been brought to his attention on more than 1 occasion.

    My opinion, and perhaps my opininon only, Joe decided to look the other way in order to protect the image of his program and school. Joe knew what this would do to the image of his program. Keeping in mind that the school president asked Joe to resign around 2001-2002 following several sub-.500 seasons and Joe refused and kept on coaching until yesterday, it was obvious Joe had more power than the school president. In my opinion, Joe didn't want this to see the light of day, because above hurting the image of the program and school, he likely knew the public outrage would lead to his forced resignation.

    How people defend this man or actions in this case are beyond me. The more that comes out, the more Joe looks culpable. I don't care how many games the man has won, how many building he's built on campus or money he's donated to charity, when the rubber meet the road, and Joe had the opportunity to put an end to arguable the worst crime a man can commit, JoePa failed miserably.
    Great summation. There's just no fathomable way that Joe didn't know what Jerry was up to years ago, yet he continued to allow him to be a part of the program and run a charitable organization for boys without sounding the alarm, and even supporting it indirectly. Joe Paterno enabled it to keep happening with full knowledge of what was happening. His legacy is one of shame and it couldn't be more deserved.
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