Turn Off Ads?
Page 18 of 67 FirstFirst ... 814151617181920212228 ... LastLast
Results 256 to 270 of 992

Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #256
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,560

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Wow, I hope to god these rumors prove false. I can't even wrap my mind around how something like that could ever happen in this country, especially coming out of a high quality university like Penn State.

    I want to cry over this and it's making me sick to my stomach.
    I'm trained by my job to remain detached from these kinds of things. I've seen stuff that would turn most people's stomach. I've sat with victims of crime as young as 5 and listened to stories that would make most people doubt the existence of a higher being.

    If this story is true, it's one of the worst things I've ever heard in my life. It's the type of thing you read about happening in the third world or "sex tourism" places like Thailand. It shouldn't happen in this country.

    If people at Penn State allowed this to happen, they should burn the university to the ground and salt the earth after they leave.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #257
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,370

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    I pray what is in that story is not true. I sincerely pray, words can not even describe my feelings if anything similar was actually happening amongst highly visiable people in america.
    Sounds like the latter days of the Roman Empire.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  4. #258
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,560

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Though, I really should note that if the genesis of this rumor is Mark Madden, and it's the same Mark Madden I'm thinking of (on-again, off-again Post-Gazette columnist and Pittsburgh radio guy, who also used to be a "heel" commentator for World Championship Wrestling back in the '90s), this rumor needs to be taken with a heaping full of salt.

    I really want this one to not be true just as a human being.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  5. #259
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,397

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'm trained by my job to remain detached from these kinds of things. I've seen stuff that would turn most people's stomach. I've sat with victims of crime as young as 5 and listened to stories that would make most people doubt the existence of a higher being.

    If this story is true, it's one of the worst things I've ever heard in my life. It's the type of thing you read about happening in the third world or "sex tourism" places like Thailand. It shouldn't happen in this country.

    If people at Penn State allowed this to happen, they should burn the university to the ground and salt the earth after they leave.
    It is definitely shocking. I work with young people and would not hesitate to report suspicion of abuse. For this to go on so long a lot of people had to not act on their suspicions or--even worse--not act on concrete evidence.

  6. #260
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,818

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    There are some really big names associated with that organization.

  7. #261
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Almost Heaven
    Posts
    8,443

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    That is so beyond irrelevent, if it were found that that played into the timing to let him go, whomever used that criteria should be gone too.

    I don't believe that they're that stupid, with the eyes of the world on them now.
    I agree with Krono, although Paterno is already gone. The guy is still going to have his followers in Pennsylvania and I am sure there will be if there aren't already conspiracy theories in that this was some way to get Paterno axed.

    I live in Parkersburg, WV. A former HS football coach here resigned due to something back in 2001 that caused some controversy.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps...-wva-coach.htm

    There are people I know here to this day who defend the former coach, saying that the former player making the claim lost the starting QB position and his parents made the claim. Some say they didn't like the direction the program was heading (although he won a state championship), so the charges were brought up. Either way, it happened, but people still bury their heads in the sand over it.

    On another level, I think the Tressel comparison fits in a different way. 24 hours after Tressel resigned, people in Ohio had turned him into the second coming of Pete Rose. Even though there is a HUGE difference between what Tressel did and what Paterno oversaw, people who are loyal fans, alumni, etc in that state will spin it in a completely different way, even if it defies common sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  8. #262
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Just read that Scott Paterno told a newspaper that JoePa never even asked Sandusky about the 2002 incident McQueary reported to him. Wow! How can anyone excuse THAT?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  9. #263
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    5,926

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'm trained by my job to remain detached from these kinds of things. I've seen stuff that would turn most people's stomach. I've sat with victims of crime as young as 5 and listened to stories that would make most people doubt the existence of a higher being.

    If this story is true, it's one of the worst things I've ever heard in my life. It's the type of thing you read about happening in the third world or "sex tourism" places like Thailand. It shouldn't happen in this country.

    If people at Penn State allowed this to happen, they should burn the university to the ground and salt the earth after they leave.
    Which makes your position on the Roethlisberger incident(s) questionable. Sorry to call you out on it, because believe it or not I think you're a great asset to this board, but hearing about sexual crime victims and then referring to claims about Big Ben as unproven, leaves me wondering.

    Sexual claims are inherently difficult to prove because they are going to happen in private so when someone says "Unproven," that pretty much describes every claim ever given, unless we have DNA or an eyewitness.

    As a victim of this type of thing myself, I never found a shortage of doubters and outright disbeleivers or folks who would somehow come up with the strangest reasons to throw water on my truthfulness.

    Look at the way victims are treated- Big Ben trashed these women- they were stalkers, they were after money. Herman Cain said that we shouldn't be trying people in the court of public opinion over unfounded accusations when less than 24 hours before he accused an entire profession of conspiring against him when he admittedly had no proof they did so, making himself guilty of the thing he was using in his own defense. Paterno didn't tell anyone because of his own brand. It's all pathetic.

    I realize you are with most here on Paterno, and I don't want to derail this, but I distinctly remembering you going to bat for Roethlisberger, with a comment about his treatment from the media and how the claims were unfounded. Due to the nature of the crime, you can say they are all unfounded. There are not going to be recorded conversations and video tapes because the assailant isn't going to do this sort of thing with those around.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  10. #264
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,511

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    And on a lighter note ...

    Rinaldi Fail - YouTube

    Gosh, I love ESPN.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  11. #265
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,171

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Though, I really should note that if the genesis of this rumor is Mark Madden, and it's the same Mark Madden I'm thinking of (on-again, off-again Post-Gazette columnist and Pittsburgh radio guy, who also used to be a "heel" commentator for World Championship Wrestling back in the '90s), this rumor needs to be taken with a heaping full of salt.

    I really want this one to not be true just as a human being.
    I think it is since he was/is based out of the Pittsburgh area but it doesn't mean he's wrong. Even the National Enquirer breaks true stories.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  12. #266
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Waterloo, NY
    Posts
    3,678

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I think over the next few weeks some light will be shed on what exactly happened as I am sure this will be investigated thoroughly by an outside source. Right now all we have is what the media is reporting and they have there own priorities in covering this case. In no way should Penn State or the surrounding counties be allowed to handle this situation as it has been botched since 1998.

    I personally will await the facts on this case as I am sure it will continue to evolve over a period of time. I'm not so perfect myself to where I feel that I can judge another man on his actions or inactions. Seems like a lot of judgements are being rendered in this thread in regards to Paterno.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  13. #267
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,064

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    Agreed, I'll go even further.

    My opinion, and perhaps my opininon only, Joe decided to look the other way in order to protect the image of his program and school. Joe knew what this would do to the image of his program. Keeping in mind that the school president asked Joe to resign around 2001-2002 following several sub-.500 seasons and Joe refused and kept on coaching until yesterday, it was obvious Joe had more power than the school president. In my opinion, Joe didn't want this to see the light of day, because above hurting the image of the program and school, he likely knew the public outrage would lead to his forced resignation.

    How people defend this man or actions in this case are beyond me. The more that comes out, the more Joe looks culpable. I don't care how many games the man has won, how many building he's built on campus or money he's donated to charity, when the rubber meet the road, and Joe had the opportunity to put an end to arguable the worst crime a man can commit, JoePa failed miserably.

    This is where I disagree with you. Paterno failed no doubt. But in my mind attaching any improper motives to his failure is simply too much. His failure is/was a big enough deal without being malicious. I think he was given multiple opportunities to do the brave thing and shed light on a problem that he didn't really know enough about. For whatever reason he didn't take those opportunities. He has said as much.

    A couple of things to consider.
    1) We're all speaking with the clarity of hindsight. We all are speaking as if Joe was indifferent to the suffering as it was going, but there's nothing which leads us to believe he knew the scope of what was going on. Essentially, Joe knew of rumors of "something inappropriate" and knew that the Grad Asst was traumatized by what he saw. But he also did what he believed was right at the time, and nothing else came of it.
    Further, there's nothing which leads us to believe he helped cover up anything. He reported what he had heard to the higher ups. No doubt he should have followed up more closely, but I think its unfair to say that he tried to cover it up.

    2) I think his fault was in trusting his friend and not recognizing that this wasn't something you could "fix". In the same way that a drug addict's friends trusted them, and an alcoholics friends and family trust them. Sandusky exploited that trust to continue his actions unabated.
    I think part of the problem was that Paterno failed to see the true sick nature of Sandusky. That the allegations weren't something that was simply inappropriate, but were abusive. And this wasn't something that a man could "correct" but rather was a sickness that would never get better and would only be enabled when people didn't see it for what it was.

    Let's assume for a minute that Joe is telling the truth, that the grad assistant told him only a rough outline of what he saw.
    Would you cast a friend aside because some people had alleged he had done terrible things? Terrible allegations which were never followed up to your knowledge and which the person would undoubtedly deny?

    Paterno's failure was in not stepping up when someone had to step up. In not putting his personal feelings aside and seeing the bigger picture. But I have no doubt that he did what he thought was the right thing at the time. It just turns out that he's human. And he failed. And quite honestly that's enough for me. He failed. He'd tell you as much.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  14. #268
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,560

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Which makes your position on the Roethlisberger incident(s) questionable. Sorry to call you out on it, because believe it or not I think you're a great asset to this board, but hearing about sexual crime victims and then referring to claims about Big Ben as unproven, leaves me wondering.

    Sexual claims are inherently difficult to prove because they are going to happen in private so when someone says "Unproven," that pretty much describes every claim ever given, unless we have DNA or an eyewitness.

    As a victim of this type of thing myself, I never found a shortage of doubters and outright disbeleivers or folks who would somehow come up with the strangest reasons to throw water on my truthfulness.

    Look at the way victims are treated- Big Ben trashed these women- they were stalkers, they were after money. Herman Cain said that we shouldn't be trying people in the court of public opinion over unfounded accusations when less than 24 hours before he accused an entire profession of conspiring against him when he admittedly had no proof they did so, making himself guilty of the thing he was using in his own defense. Paterno didn't tell anyone because of his own brand. It's all pathetic.

    I realize you are with most here on Paterno, and I don't want to derail this, but I distinctly remembering you going to bat for Roethlisberger, with a comment about his treatment from the media and how the claims were unfounded. Due to the nature of the crime, you can say they are all unfounded. There are not going to be recorded conversations and video tapes because the assailant isn't going to do this sort of thing with those around.
    There is a rather large difference between this and the Roethlisberger story. The first of which -- which is a rather large issue -- is that the Roethlisberger story was about two adults and the threshold of consensual vs. non-consensual (with a dose of voluntary intoxication thrown in for good measure). That doesn't even come into play here. A child is incapable of consenting to a sex act. Period. There's never an issue of whether or not the child agreed to have sex, regretted it, and reported it as a rape later to save face.

    The other difference is that the Roethlisberger story played it's way through the criminal justice system. Police investigations happened. Statements were taken. Evidence was examined. Charges were declined. You can say Roethlisberger may have beat his rape charge because the investigation was done in a shoddy fashion, but the fact remains that a criminal investigation was done. The horror of this story is that Paterno is that he never even allowed that process to happen. The victim never had their day in court, or even their day with a detective. In the Roethlisberger case, the victim ultimately backed off from prosecuting. Why? We'll never really know the truth, I suspect.

    I suppose you can say it's a nuanced position, but there's a huge difference in my mind.

    ETA: The other big difference between this and Roethlisberger is that you have testimony under-oath before a Grand Jury that condemns Sandusky and Paterno. That never happened in the Ben case as I recall.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 11-10-2011 at 11:14 AM.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  15. #269
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,511

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I think over the next few weeks some light will be shed on what exactly happened as I am sure this will be investigated thoroughly by an outside source. Right now all we have is what the media is reporting and they have there own priorities in covering this case. In no way should Penn State or the surrounding counties be allowed to handle this situation as it has been botched since 1998.

    I personally will await the facts on this case as I am sure it will continue to evolve over a period of time. I'm not so perfect myself to where I feel that I can judge another man on his actions or inactions. Seems like a lot of judgements are being rendered in this thread in regards to Paterno.
    Yep, obviously mistakes were made and by alot of people. It's a little early though to know exactly how things happened.


    The interim coach is giving his 1st news conference now (on espn and who knows where else).
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  16. #270
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,064

    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I'm not so perfect myself to where I feel that I can judge another man on his actions or inactions. Seems like a lot of judgements are being rendered in this thread in regards to Paterno.
    Amen.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25