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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #286
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    http://www.timesonline.com/columnist...a4bcf6878.html

    Don't know if this has been posted yet, but an interesting article from back in April.

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  3. #287
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Again, it seems so clear through hindsight. I think because the emotional response is so strong when you see the allegations in totality, it's hard to imagine what it would feel like as the scene is unfolding.

    Again I try to imagine these allegations are made against a friend I've had for 50 years.

    The allegations are there in black and white, but I'll likely remember the very vivid images I have of the individual. When presented with empirical evidence, the first thought I would have had was "How many times was he around Jay and Scott? Or any of the grandkids."
    And quite honestly, I'll admit to you that a very large portion of my brain would most likely deny that any of these allegations could possibly be true because I can't imagine the horror that would be involved in admitting to myself that I'd let a pedophile hang around the children I loved. We see this all the time, friends, parishioners, spouses. They all deny to themselves what was going on, no matter how much evidence they are presented.

    It's easy to say that he should have thought of the other children, the actual victims. But people's minds will so very often go into a protective shell and block out any harmful information.

    Even without the stark self defense filter a brain processes information through; people deny empirical evidence ALL THE TIME. That's what most of the fun baseball related discussions are about. A scout's eye and instinct(The kid's awesome, I've never seen a guy run from home to first that fast) versus the empirical evidence(his .050 OBP shows he couldn't find his way to first base with a map, and when he did get to first he was thrown out stealing two times in three attempts.)

    I say this because I don't think he "chose" his friend over the victims. I don't think he "chose" his football program over the truth. At least not in the way that he actively and rationally decided those things were more important. I think he took all the information in through the various filters in his brain and did what he thought was best.

    I'm no psychologist, but from what I've read on cognitive functions, it seems very much possible that McQueary could have graphically described what happened, Paterno could have taken that in and without even trying to see his friend in the best possible light processed it as "something inappropriate which I'll talk to the AD about." In other words, as the information is being processed, before a rational mind tries to spin it, it's already become something that will require a small "fix."

    If I'm wrong, and Paterno's the only one who could truly know. Than he's as much of a monster as Sandusky. If he decided that his friend's reputation and his football team's reputation were more important than the scores of abused children, than quite honestly his soul is most likely so broken that I don't think he could have lived through the last 20 years.
    Wow, this may be defending the indefensible, but people tell the truth all the time. They may go through periods of denial (his wife must be a real doozy to be calling one of the victims near the grand jury trial to "speak to him about an important matter."), but come on. Cognitive dissonance theory? If you were my defense attorney, I'd shockingly ask "is that all you got? Man, I'm screwed, might as well plead guilty."
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  4. #288
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Hoosier, all that may be true of Paterno, but I don't think it changes anything. If anything, it makes him appear even more selfish. He was THE MAN is charge of the football program. His program's facilities were being used to molest children. He had an eye witness tell him to his face. He never even so much as asked Sandusky about it. NEVER EVEN ASKED. That goes well beyond the rationalizations you describe.
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  5. #289
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I don't know if this was ever posted here, or if I found it from a UD board:

    http://www.centredaily.com/2010/04/1...wing-cold.html

    The missing DA was the same DA that decided not to prosecute Jerry Sanduski in 1998. Interestingly, his brother was deemed to commit suicide by jumping into the Great miami River in 1995. Coincidence all around? I don't know, but it certainly adds a big ol' "hmmmm..." to the time line of this story.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    After trudging through the Grand Jury report, the glaring thing I see is that PSU officials acted on information, but the continued failure to contact the PROPER authorities was highlighted and was the legal expectation. Anyone who knew had the responsibility to report, REGARDLESS of what their chain of command did. I think everyone involved knew that, or certainly had the opportunity to know that. This sure does look like a conspiracy. No way are Paterno and the GA legal problems over.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I'd already pled guilty on JoePa's part. I'm simply not of the opinion that he somehow saw all the evidence presented in the light of day, and with a cold and calculating mind said, "Screw it, we can't have anything that will take away from the football team. Let's wallpaper over this and move on. We've got Ohio State this weekend."

    The tragedy in this is that the people who couldn't see past their friendship and admiration didn't get the information to the people who wouldn't be blinded by the same.

    People tell the truth all the time. Of course they do, and as far as we know Joe Paterno told the truth here. That he didn't bring himself to face the truth is where he failed.

    Listen, if you think that Paterno was simply unmoved by the potential child abuse enough that he considered it a lower priority than winning that week's game, you may be right. I don't think I can comprehend someone that numb to mankind's cruelty, but I have a hard time comprehending a lot of things involved in this case.

    So this may be nothing more than my rationalization.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    After trudging through the Grand Jury report, the glaring thing I see is that PSU officials acted on information, but the continued failure to contact the PROPER authorities was highlighted and was the legal expectation. Anyone who knew had the responsibility to report, REGARDLESS of what their chain of command did. I think everyone involved knew that, or certainly had the opportunity to know that. This sure does look like a conspiracy. No way are Paterno and the GA legal problems over.
    I've also heard mention that the federal Department of Education will be investigating this as well. Because Penn State receives federal funds, they are compelled to report anything of this nature to the DoE. So there could also be consequences for Penn State on a federal level.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  9. #293
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'd already pled guilty on JoePa's part. I'm simply not of the opinion that he somehow saw all the evidence presented in the light of day, and with a cold and calculating mind said, "Screw it, we can't have anything that will take away from the football team. Let's wallpaper over this and move on. We've got Ohio State this weekend."

    .
    Really? He started a "We Are Penn St." chant the other night on his lawn. After he was fired his wife said "I guess you'll have to beat Nebraska without us." Like any of that matters.


    Just listened to Heath Evans on Rome....he was pretty scathing and I have to agree with him.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    After trudging through the Grand Jury report, the glaring thing I see is that PSU officials acted on information, but the continued failure to contact the PROPER authorities was highlighted and was the legal expectation. Anyone who knew had the responsibility to report, REGARDLESS of what their chain of command did. I think everyone involved knew that, or certainly had the opportunity to know that. This sure does look like a conspiracy. No way are Paterno and the GA legal problems over.
    I agree that the problem was a failure to report to the police and the reason why you should always report to the police in addition/instead of your superiors is you don't know what the motivations of the person higher than you in the command structure.
    It's admittedly polyanna to think Paterno had no interest in concealing the truth for his friend, but assuming he wasn't trying to cover anything up. Rather he referred the case up the line, as did everyone else below him. But clearly at some point the system broke down because someone determined it was in his or her best interest to not contact the police and to cover up the crime. Reporting things up the chain of command only works if you have faith that everyone believes that the truth is the most important thing.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  11. #295
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Let's be honest here and admit that everyone involved at Penn State knew what was going on with Sandusky. If you think about it, you almost have to think that there was knowledge or at least suspicion around the rest of the NCAA as well. Sandusky retired in his mid 50's, correct? And he was never offered another coaching job by any school? People had to know, wouldn't you say?
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    Really? He started a "We Are Penn St." chant the other night on his lawn. After he was fired his wife said "I guess you'll have to beat Nebraska without us." Like any of that matters.


    Just listened to Heath Evans on Rome....he was pretty scathing and I have to agree with him.
    Yes, I think that is telling. Really all they turn out to be are idols drunk on their own fame and the organization that brought the fame. It's pretty bad when the real thing is worse than any Hollywood stereotype could ever portray.
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  13. #297
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    A very memorable talk I heard over a year ago would have really benefitted both 'ole State U's this wonderful, forgettable college football season. It was by one of the owners of a large PR firm based in Cleveland. His advice to clients is "tell the truth, tell it all, tell it first." His primary theorem stems from the idea that this keeps already explosive problems from turning into a media and public feeding frenzy. He joked about not being consulted by the Tiger Woods camp, the hot item at the time.

    Imagine how different these cases would have turned out if the leaders of these orgs. had followed that wisdom. Then, the truly guilty are punished appropriately and the collateral damage is not so extensive. Try to cover things up, it just becomes a bigger mess than it already is. It was true for King David, it is still true today, in spades.
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  14. #298
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    A very memorable talk I heard over a year ago would have really benefitted both 'ole State U's this wonderful, forgettable college football season. It was by one of the owners of a large PR firm based in Cleveland. His advice to clients is "tell the truth, tell it all, tell it first." His primary theorem stems from the idea that this keeps already explosive problems from turning into a media and public feeding frenzy. He joked about not being consulted by the Tiger Woods camp, the hot item at the time.

    Imagine how different these cases would have turned out if the leaders of these orgs. had followed that wisdom. Then, the truly guilty are punished appropriately and the collateral damage is not so extensive. Try to cover things up, it just becomes a bigger mess than it already is. It was true for King David, it is still true today, in spades.
    Absolutely agree 1000%. When you don't find out the extent of a problem, even if you're not trying to cover it up, you're covering it up.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  15. #299
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    I don't know if this was ever posted here, or if I found it from a UD board:

    http://www.centredaily.com/2010/04/1...wing-cold.html

    The missing DA was the same DA that decided not to prosecute Jerry Sanduski in 1998. Interestingly, his brother was deemed to commit suicide by jumping into the Great miami River in 1995. Coincidence all around? I don't know, but it certainly adds a big ol' "hmmmm..." to the time line of this story.
    Now if this got connected in...
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  16. #300
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Thing is, I'm pretty sure we're going to have a pretty good understanding of what was and wasn't known in the near future. I'm sure former players will be interviewed and will be able to talk to whether or not it was a secret that Sandusky was a shady character or whether this comes as a complete shock to them.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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