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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #361
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    The reasoning was that "students reaction means that people will blame the victims. Why didn't they ask them about how to handle this?" The response was based on the reaction of the students, which was irrational, as if they are speaking for the way rational people view this. And rational people see this as a reasonable consequence.

    So.........the victims are apparently considering the view of irrational people as the basis for "we don't want people blaming us for getting JoePa fired." This position is just so illogical that it blows my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    In fairness, if you're a victim worried about being targeted for retribution, the rational people aren't the ones you're concerned about.
    Valid point. But, not mine.

    The views of the victims might not make any sense to you, traderumor. Should that mean that their opinions should be instantly dismissed though?

    This isn't about what happens to the people that are being held responsible. This is about making sure that the victims know that they're important. That, even though people didn't care enough about them before, that those victims feel, that they KNOW, that people care about them now. And not just by going after the perpetrators. They just want the university to hear them out. That's all. Considering what happened before when noone paid attention to them I don't understand why people would want to ignore them now.

    The university is trying to clean up a big mess, to put it VERY mildly. If the board of trustees aren't willing to talk to the people that were victimized by their own employees then it's just another mistake that they're making. It's part of their job. It's called accountability. They might not want to face the music but they're gonna have to do it sooner or later. Facing the victims is part of the process. It's not enough for the accused to face the victims in court. The board of trustees need to face them too. Do it now and it can make things easier. Do it later and it can make things harder and costlier.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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  3. #362
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    PSU is already losing recruits....

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/re...-cites-scandal


    This scandal could decimate their football program for years.

    As well it should.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  4. #363
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Everybody makes mistakes. It's what you do to correct your mistakes that shows what kind of person you are.

    Paterno made an epic mistake. That's the best he can hope for in the realm of public perception. The other end of that scale would be a co-ordinated coverup.

    But let's give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he made a mistake, and once alerted to the possibility of child molestation going on in his building, his program, his legacy, how does he correct the mistake?

    By turning a blind eye.

    I don't know ANYONE who would do such a thing. If this happened in my company, I would move heaven and earth to stop it and bring all responsible parties to justice. Nothing would stop me, no friendship, no fear of public scorn, nothing.

    This is an epic fail. Paterno has lived a life of nearly universal respect from the acedemic world and the sports world. He's a legend, one of the most respected men in the country.

    You live by the sword, you die by the sword. If you enjoy the benefits of all that adoration over the years, you better be ready for the other side of the coin if something this unthinkable happens on your watch. And to allow it to go on for YEARS!!! How many lives have been destroyed by this gutless and totally selfish lack of character.

    I hear from time to time that adversity builds character. Maybe. I think that adversity REVEALS character, and that's what I see now.

    Such a disconnect from reality. Leading a chant of "we are, Penn State" on his lawn?!

    Talk is cheap. Action and lack thereof will be Joe Pas defining legacy.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  5. #364
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Here is something I've been wondering about:

    What happened at Penn State is despicable, and I don't think there are too many other words that can describe it.

    With that said, I wonder how many people who feel the exact same way cried on the day that Michael Jackson died?
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I had never heard of this before:

    http://highstrangeness.tv/articles/franklin.php

    and I'm not saying its in any way connected, just something that was brought up on another board. IF, and I repeat IF it is shown that the rumors of a prostitution ring coming out of the 2nd mile are true, perhaps this provides some insight into how it would work? Again, I had never heard of this, perhaps its a real whacked out theory and proven false in many different cases, would be interested to hear more, obviously some pretty damning stuff charged by the author of the book.

  7. #366
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    With that said, I wonder how many people who feel the exact same way cried on the day that Michael Jackson died?
    Huh?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  8. #367
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    From Poz, some good points. Pretty spot on if you ask me.

    http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/1...nd-of-paterno/

    And why? I’ll tell you my opinion: Because they were afraid. And I understand that. A kind word for Joe Paterno in this storm is taken by many as a pro vote for a child molester. A quick, “Wait a minute, Joe Paterno is a good man. Let’s see what happened here” is translated as an attempt to minimize the horror of what Jerry Sandusky is charged with doing. It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.

    ................................

    1. Joe Paterno is responsible for what happens on his watch. Period.

    2. People are making assumptions about what Joe did or didn’t know, what Joe did or didn’t do, and I can’t tell you that those assumptions are wrong. But I can tell you that they are assumptions based on one side of the story.

    3. We are in a top-you world where everyone is not only trying to report something faster but is also trying to report something ANGRIER. One guy wants Joe Paterno to resign, the next wants him to be fired, the next wants him to be fired this minute, the next wants him to be fired and arrested, the next wants him to be fired, arrested and jailed, on and on, until we’ve lost sight of who actually committed the crimes here.

    4. I think the University could not possibly have handled this worse. It was disgusting and disgraceful, the method in which they fired Joe Paterno after 60 years of service, and yes, I do think Paterno was a scapegoat. Of course he was. I’ve already said that he had to be let go. But to let him dangle out there, take up all the headlines, face the bulk of the media pressure, absolutely, that’s the very definition of scapegoat. Three people were indicted and arrested. A fourth, I hear, will be indicted soon. Joe Paterno is not one of the four.

    5. It is still unclear what Paterno did in this case. It will remain unclear for a while. You might be one of the hundreds and hundreds of people I’ve heard from who know EXACTLY what Paterno did. He HAD to know this. He DEFINITELY knew that. He COULD have done something. I respect that. Joe Paterno’s a public figure. You have every right to believe what you want to believe and be absolutely certain about it. But since we have not heard from Joe, not heard from former athletic director Tim Curley, not heard from GA/assistant coach Mike McQueary, not heard from anyone who was in the room, I’ll repeat: It’s unclear. A determined grand jury did not charge Joe Paterno with any crime. A motivated reporting barrage, so far, anyway, has not uncovered a single thing that can tell us definitively what Joe Paterno knew.

  9. #368
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Huh?
    I think his point was that many people were very sad when Michael Jackson died and praised him, even though it's pretty obvious he was a disgusting child molester (and the world is probably a better place without him). Many of those same people, I think he is arguing, may be expressing outrage at Penn State now, and are therefore hypocrites.

  10. #369
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I'm guessing most of those who cried when Michael Jackson died aren't football fans.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #370
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    I think his point was that many people were very sad when Michael Jackson died and praised him, even though it's pretty obvious he was a disgusting child molester (and the world is probably a better place without him). Many of those same people, I think he is arguing, may be expressing outrage at Penn State now, and are therefore hypocrites.
    It sure is an interesting thought.

  12. #371
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    That interview with Kim Jones was fantastic, a couple new things came out of that. For those who didn't listen to it, she talks about an incident as recently as 2007 where Sandusky showed up at a closed practice with a young boy. He was there like he was regularly just hanging out, watching practice, and bringing one of the kids. Paterno was there, McQueary was there, and Sandusky had a young boy with him and he was allowed to be there.

    They also talk about how he was allowed to run an overnight football camp on ON THE PENN STATE CAMPUS as recently as 2009. WTF? How can anyone defend that?

    Perhaps one of the more damning things she talks about is how Sandusky was volunteering as a coach at a local high school. One (or maybe more) parent learned that he was inappropriate with their son and went to the school about it. As Jones said, that school did exactly what they were supposed to and went to the authorities and that's why they had the grand jury and why this has finally been stopped.

    If the people at Penn State would have done the same, it would have stopped years ago.
    That's interesting. I was wondering what actually brought about the grand jury indictments.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  13. #372
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    If you really want your head to explode, read the grand jury findings.

    http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...resentment.pdf
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  14. #373
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    From Poz, some good points. Pretty spot on if you ask me.

    http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/1...nd-of-paterno/
    There will be a lot of pressure on Pos to get this book out ASAP from his publisher. He clearly wants to wait for some resolution, which could take years. It will be interesting to see who wins, because this book will make a mint.

    As for his message in the post, I consider that when we are offended, we want justice, swift and as punitive as possible. When we are guilty, we desire mercy. Funny how that works, seen a little bit of that in myself as I consider this case.
    Last edited by traderumor; 11-11-2011 at 10:06 AM.
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  15. #374
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    There will be a lot of pressure on Pos to get this book out ASAP from his publisher. He clearly wants to wait for some resolution, which could take years. It will be interesting to see who wins, because this book will make a mint.

    As for his message in the post, I consider that when we are offended, we want justice, swift and as punitive as possible. When we are guilty, we desire mercy. Funny how that works, seen a little bit of that in myself as I consider this case.
    I have always thought that Poz took to heart journalistic integrity. I don't think he will "sell out" to boost book sales. I think he considers himself above doing something like that. At least that is what I hope will happen.

  16. #375
    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I have always thought that Poz took to heart journalistic integrity. I don't think he will "sell out" to boost book sales. I think he considers himself above doing something like that. At least that is what I hope will happen.
    Well, the truth may be that from this point forward, he'll get very little access to JoePa and PSU. JoePa has apparently hired a criminal defense attorney, I'm no lawyer, but if I was, I think the first thing I'd do is tell JoePa to stop all communication with Poz going forward other than perhaps making a statement of his innocence to end the book.

    My guess is that Poz has only 2 options going forward, write the book with the information he has today along with a summary explaining the recent events and progress moving forward, or scrap largely the book that he has written thus far and dig deep into the filth and see what you can find, and how it possibly ties into the book you were preparing to write. The 2nd option is going to take a lot of time, it may fall outside of Poz's realm of expetrise and abilities. Of course, perhaps both can be written, the "fluff" piece quickly, the hard hitting investigative journalism in another year or 2, I guess it depends what anyone finds when the start turning over stones on PSU's campus.


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