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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #781
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    Are only great football coaches entitles to the privilege of avoiding your judgment until all of the facts come out? Or have more facts come out since last week that allow you to confidently say that "Spanier and Curley were chicken (expletive)" and more to blame than Paterno? I guess I am wondering why you feel so confident judging them.
    I was more referring to the way they handled the Joe Pa coaching situation. They didn't have the guts to make a difficult decision when it was clearly evident that Joe's best days were behind him.

    As for the molestation case if I am going to levy blame on anyone with the information I have I will levy it directly upon the AD and School president. That said, there was a failure along the chain of command and an atrocity was allowed to happen. So back to my original point I think it would be prudent to allow all the facts to come to light before throwing the first stone.

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  3. #782
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Paterno's a lot of things but an investigator is not one of them.
    Red herring. Not once, anywhere, on this board or in the press, have I seen anyone suggest this as an expectation.

    However, I have seen a lot of folks understand the concepts of "follow through" and "follow up" and "using influence to make sure the right thing is done" that is a basic expectation of high leadership in very serious circumstances.

    And Paterno was notorious for getting his nose in the middle of issues that involved his players. He knew everything going on his program. But here, with a very, very serious situation in view, the expectation is "delegate?" Rationalization 101.

    Not sure why you are joining the list of former players in rationalizing, but you are.
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  4. #783
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Red herring. Not once, anywhere, on this board or in the press, have I seen anyone suggest this as an expectation.

    However, I have seen a lot of folks understand the concepts of "follow through" and "follow up" and "using influence to make sure the right thing is done" that is a basic expectation of high leadership in very serious circumstances.

    Not sure why you are joining the list of former players in rationalizing, but you are.
    Can you imagine being the sole witness to a crime, and nobody ever follows up with you to take the stand, or help identify the victim, or asks you a single question?

    And you see the perpetrator still hanging around the workplace?

    From the outside it sure looks like to me this guy found a way to fulfill his legal obligation and keep his job on the football team. Pretty sad.

    And it also sure looks like to me like the head of the football program cared about his statue and legacy, and cared more about these things than the safety of children.

    It's really tough to sit here and read the endless excuses and improbable scenarios being bandied about in the name of keeping some sort of legend alive- a legend that undoubtedly enabled a monster to sexually abuse children so that the statue didn't come down.

    I tell you- the guy who deserves a statue is the guy who stands up, life's work be damned, and says hey, this person who has worked for me is doing unspeakable things to children, and if you all look at me or my program differently because of it, I don't give a flying ****.

    That guy deserves a legacy, not some selfish coward who shivers in a corner because there are more important things to him than the stopping the sexual abuse of children.
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  5. #784
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/...er-was/1209259

    Not the same case, but for reference sake, a Tampa man who shot and killed a martial arts instructor who was molesting children and video taping it was sentenced to 12 years in jail for manslaughter.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  6. #785
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    The level of denial that continues to be pervasive on their Rivals board would make bucksfan or Sea Ray blush.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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  7. #786
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    The level of denial that continues to be pervasive on their Rivals board would make bucksfan or Sea Ray blush.
    I'm not sure what you were expecting to see from that board. I think a lot of folks in Penn State are still in shock over this which comes with a lot of denial and disbelief. Most folks still think something is going to come out to vindicate Paterno, which in turn would vindicate the program. It's a sad to see some of these reactions but not unexpected when you know someone for all those years.
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  8. #787
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I'm not sure what you were expecting to see from that board. I think a lot of folks in Penn State are still in shock over this which comes with a lot of denial and disbelief. Most folks still think something is going to come out to vindicate Paterno, which in turn would vindicate the program. It's a sad to see some of these reactions but not unexpected when you know someone for all those years.
    I think the rational reaction is to wonder if there aren't more skeletons and when we are going to hear about them.

    Hopefully the sociologist professors at the school can help explain to them what a sociological cult is and help to deprogram everyone.
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  9. #788
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    The level of denial that continues to be pervasive on their Rivals board would make bucksfan or Sea Ray blush.
    I don't know what they're saying since you gave no examples but Penn State as a whole is to blame for screwing this up. However the football coach himself deserves very little of that. He did what he was supposed to. Report it and let the process play out.

  10. #789
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I don't know what they're saying since you gave no examples but Penn State as a whole is to blame for screwing this up. However the football coach himself deserves very little of that. He did what he was supposed to. Report it and let the process play out.
    Funny, the image I get of Paterno in this whole thing is from the movie Titanic, where Bruce Ismay ducks into a boat while his company's crown jewel sinks into the ocean with thousands drowning or dying of hypothermia in the icy North Atlantic.
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  11. #790
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Funny, the image I get of Paterno in this whole thing is from the movie Titanic, where Bruce Ismay ducks into a boat while his company's crown jewel sinks into the ocean with thousands drowning or dying of hypothermia in the icy North Atlantic.
    I'm not a big movie guy so I never saw that scene but Paterno in the 21st century was a figurehead in many ways and was anything but hands on. To blame a figurehead for this seems misguided to me. In most states you'd be well past mandatory retirement age at 75. I recall that the state of Alabama changed their mandatory retirement age law in order to keep Bear Bryant as coach...

  12. #791
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not a big movie guy so I never saw that scene but Paterno in the 21st century was a figurehead in many ways and was anything but hands on. To blame a figurehead for this seems misguided to me. In most states you'd be well past mandatory retirement age at 75. I recall that the state of Alabama changed their mandatory retirement age law in order to keep Bear Bryant as coach...
    He was told, figurehead or not. He knew.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  13. #792
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    He was told, figurehead or not. He knew.
    And he reported it immediately.

  14. #793
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    And he reported it immediately.
    And let it go at that...pretty sad.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  15. #794
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    And he reported it immediately.
    Not immediately. He didn't want to interrupt anyone's weekend with such petty news. To me that says a lot about how seriously Paterno took this whole thing.


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  16. #795
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    And he reported it immediately.
    Define immediately.
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