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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #871
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Your leg to stand on is getting more and more wobbly with each post. As Jojo stated, you do not have adequate "facts" to support your "he's many things, but he's no liar" conclusion.
    You are correct. I am giving the man the benefit of the doubt. I think that's fair. Why won't you be fair to the man

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  3. #872
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Without knowing the man personally, I find it difficult to accept that he had no knowledge that his defensive coordinator was being investigated for child molestation in 1998. Happy Valley is not Pleasantville afterall...people talk and the pond is a small one so echoes travel....
    So you're saying he's lying. You have no basis to say that. When has he ever lied before?

  4. #873
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    --Paterno knew nothing of Sandusky's "issues" until McQueary came to him in 2002

    Sorry, it is not a "fact" that Paterno knew nothing of Sandusky's "issues" until 2002. It is only a fact that Joe has said he knew nothing of Sandusky's "issues" until then. There is a HUGE difference.

    Only if you take the stance that Paterno is incapable of lying and could not have a faulty memory could you argue otherwise.

    --Paterno reported it to his higher ups within a day of hearing McQueary's story because he felt they were more qualified to conduct the investigation than a 75 yr old football coach
    This is not a fact either. I'm not sure the timeline has been 100% verified and certainly the motivation is based entirely on Paterno's statement.
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary of Paterno's statement(s)?

  5. #874
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Do you have any evidence to the contrary of Paterno's statement(s)?
    Do you have any evidence to support Paterno's statements? You are the one presenting Paterno's statement as fact. I am just saying it is not fact.

  6. #875
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So you're saying he's lying. You have no basis to say that. When has he ever lied before?
    I'm saying his actions are sufficient to lead a staunch supporter to have cause for pause because we seem to now have examples that contradict his insistence that he respected university procedure as a matter of course which undercuts an argument that he behaved as he did with repect to the rape allegation because of a respect for university procedure.

    Can you give a litany of specific incidents where he was truthful despite negative consequences to his legacy or to his program? If not, then maybe your query concerning examples of deceit isn't as telling as you're trying to argue concerning the factual regard one should assign his statements.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #876
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'm saying his actions are sufficient to lead a staunch supporter to have cause for pause because we seem to now have examples that contradict his insistence that he respected university procedure as a matter of course which undercuts an argument that he behaved as he did with repect to the rape allegation because of a respect for university procedure.

    Can you give a litany of specific incidents where he was truthful despite negative consequences to his legacy or to his program? If not, then maybe your query concerning examples of deceit isn't as telling as you're trying to argue concerning the factual regard one should assign his statements.
    I haven't seen those examples so I have no idea what you're referring to.

    Until I have facts to the contrary, I take him at his word. I think that's the fair thing to do. If you choose to not be as fair, that's on you

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I've never known him to lie nor have I heard of others who know him better than I say that he struggles with telling the truth. Do you find him to be a liar?
    i don't have the foggiest and neither do you.

  9. #878
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I haven't seen those examples so I have no idea what you're referring to.

    Until I have facts to the contrary, I take him at his word. I think that's the fair thing to do. If you choose to not be as fair, that's on you
    You haven't really been following this story as closely as your stance might suggest have you?

    You're being offensive with your inappropriate hijacking of the moral authority.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #879
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I haven't seen those examples so I have no idea what you're referring to.

    Until I have facts to the contrary, I take him at his word. I think that's the fair thing to do. If you choose to not be as fair, that's on you
    There was an article linked in this thread - today!- that gave examples. If you refuse to look at any of the examples then I guess you won't see them.


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  11. #880
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You haven't really been following this story as closely as your stance might suggest have you?

    You're being offensive with your inappropriate hijacking of the moral authority.
    If you choose to discount what Paterno has to say then you've lost your objectivity in this case and that's on you. I'm still taking into account what everyone has to say

  12. #881
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    You are correct. I am giving the man the benefit of the doubt. I think that's fair. Why won't you be fair to the man
    Fallacious argument, appeal to authority, amazingly appealing to your own authority. I am under no obligation to accept your view of fairness as "give a successful football coach the benefit of the doubt because he is no liar." That sure doesn't sound like "just the facts."
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  13. #882
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    If you choose to discount what Paterno has to say then you've lost your objectivity in this case and that's on you. I'm still taking into account what everyone has to say
    You mean the part where he says he wishes he would have done more but didn't because he was worried about university procedures?

    I'm not the one suffering from a loss of objectivity.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #883
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You mean the part where he says he wishes he would have done more but didn't because he was worried about university procedures?

    I'm not the one suffering from a loss of objectivity.
    If want to discuss a quote, provide it and we'll discuss it in context

  15. #884
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Is there really any point in arguing with someone who is willing to believe that it's possible for a person to spend 40+ years coaching young male athletes and be unaware that such a thing as male on male rape exists?
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  16. #885
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Is there really any point in arguing with someone who is willing to believe that it's possible for a person to spend 40+ years coaching young male athletes and be unaware that such a thing as male on male rape exists?
    He must have never heard a one of those prison shower jokes. JoePa: "I always wondered what 'don't drop the soap' meant. After all these years, I get it now."
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