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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Is there really any point in arguing with someone who is willing to believe that it's possible for a person to spend 40+ years coaching young male athletes and be unaware that such a thing as male on male rape exists?
    So you think JoePa is lying?

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  3. #887
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So you think JoePa is lying?
    Not necessarily, I could certainly believe that he's suffering from dementia and no longer has the ability to provide a true explanation.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Is there really any point in arguing with someone who is willing to believe that it's possible for a person to spend 40+ years coaching young male athletes and be unaware that such a thing as male on male rape exists?
    My grandfather was 90, a little older than Joe, but their beliefs on homosexuality are qutie a bit different than what they are now. Heck that generation thought you could change someone. That generation was sure set in their beliefs, and many of them ran contrary to what they are now. Not excusing Joe Pa but just stating my experiences with that generatoin.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Not necessarily, I could certainly believe that he's suffering from dementia and no longer has the ability to provide a true explanation.
    If dementia has caused him to forget about man rape then he was telling the truth when he said he didn't know that such an act could occur

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    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I think he's most likely lying. I'm not afraid to say that. No one knows for sure but him, but don't pretend like there's no reason to think he's lying through his teeth. Just looking at probabilities, the likelihood that he didn't know about Sandusky is not very high.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Folks, he would be incompetent and unable to testify if he had dementia or some other age related mental incapacity. That would have been evaluated before he ever testified before the Grand Jury, which he already has done.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    If dementia has caused him to forget about man rape then he was telling the truth when he said he didn't know that such an act could occur
    No, he is no longer competent if that is the case. He isn't telling the truth, he is unable to provide accurate information about past events because of mental disease. That is not "telling the truth" anymore than a mentally ill person sharing information from a delusion is "telling the truth."

    However, again, he testified, so his ability to testify has already been evaluated.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So you think JoePa is lying?
    You keep going back to that argument.

    Have you ever known me to lie? Would you take anything I state as a fact?

    What Paterno says happened is not a fact. It IS a fact that he says it happened, it is NOT a fact that it did happen in they way that he says. As blum pointed out there are reasons beyond lying where a persons claims of truth might not match reality. But unless you believe Paterno is incapable of lying then even that cannot be ruled out.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    No, he is no longer competent if that is the case. He isn't telling the truth, he is unable to provide accurate information about past events because of mental disease. That is not "telling the truth" anymore than a mentally ill person sharing information from a delusion is "telling the truth."

    However, again, he testified, so his ability to testify has already been evaluated.
    We've stumbled upon some common ground...

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Paterno said that until assistant coach Mike McQueary, in 2002, approached him, he had "no inkling" of a possible dark side to Sandusky, according to The Post.

    Even if you take Joe's statements as fact, he had 9+ years to research 'man-rape', notice that Sandusky still access to young boys was still bringing them around the Penn State campus and football facilities, re-question his newly promoted assistant coach about what he saw that day, talk to Sandusky himself about the allegations and to follow up with those he reported it to in order to figure out why nothing became of it.

    I find it much more plausible that he was complicit to the cover-up than he somehow forgot about it or thought due diligence was done.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    My grandfather was 90, a little older than Joe, but their beliefs on homosexuality are qutie a bit different than what they are now. Heck that generation thought you could change someone. That generation was sure set in their beliefs, and many of them ran contrary to what they are now. Not excusing Joe Pa but just stating my experiences with that generatoin.
    It's not really about beliefs, how could any adult actually live a sheltered enough life to be unaware of the existence of male rape through the 80's and '90's and early '00's in this country? My parents, both born in the 1920's, gave my brothers and I "the disturbing talk" in the early '70's, not just me, the youngest and only girl, but my brothers, too. There is just no way that I can buy that a man who spent his adult life surrounded by college aged jocks had less awareness of such things than my homemaker mother 30 years earlier. It simply is not credible.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Is there really any point in arguing with someone who is willing to believe that it's possible for a person to spend 40+ years coaching young male athletes and be unaware that such a thing as male on male rape exists?
    No.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So you think JoePa is lying?
    Yes

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    No.
    Fair enough but it's also pointless to discuss it further with people who think JoePa's a liar. We've reached the crux of the disagreement. Some people's opinions of Joe are now so low that they think in addition to not reporting this to police himself that he's also a bold faced liar.

    I do appreciate the honesty of those folks who have given me simple and straight forward answers to my question "do you think he's lying?"

    Kudos to those posters for being straight forward

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    We've stumbled upon some common ground...
    Um, I'm not sure how you get that, since I basically said he must not have dementia, therefore he cannot be considered to be "telling the truth" simply by "he thinks he's telling the truth due to an altered state of consciousness due to mental defect."
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