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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #961
    Member ervinsm84's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Penn State is apparently like a cult. From perusing their two main boards, most seem to be more focused on the unfairness of this info being leaked. Really disturbed.
    Exactly The bolded part. Obv we both agree it doesn't fit every person associated with PSU, but it appears there is a strong majority that can be described in no other way than a cult.

    Hell, I stumbled on this earlier tonight from one of the guys with his head buried in the sand
    http://victorybellrings.com/2012/06/...leaked-emails/

    CNN’s AC360 ran a story last night about the content of emails (CNN doesn’t have the actual emails) between Tim Curley, Graham Spanier and Gary Schultz in the aftermath of Mike McQueary reporting what he saw in the shower in 2001. There are email discussions about reporting the incident to Second Mile, the charity Sandusky founded to seemingly funnel young boys to him, and about contacting Children’s Welfare. Neither of those things happened. Rather than the emails discussing what will happen if they don’t report the incident, there is ONE email from Curley, that everybody is discussing:

    “After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps.”

    That’s it. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to know what that conversation was comprised of. Maybe Joe said ANYTHING. Maybe Curley realized the ramifications after talking to Joe. I mean, it literally could have been anything.

    If Joe wanted to cover it up, why did he report it to Curley and Shultz in the first place?

    Despite that, CNN inferred that Joe may have talked Curley down and SI ran a blurb from the NY Daily News titled “Emails: Paterno told Penn State to keep quiet bout Sandusky” Well that seems like quite the stretch, even for the most avid haters of Joe Paterno. However, people have latched on and that appears to be the news today.

    I never thought this would happen, but I can’t wait until the Freeh report comes out in the coming weeks/months. The news will be bad for Penn State and it’s administration, but at least we will know the truth, or at least a good portion of it.

    In the meantime, the speculation will continue to run rampant as though facts and truth are not important when ripping down other humans. I just suggest being cautious when doing so, especially with the deceased. Regardless of what you may think or hope happened during those discussions, you don’t know. Pretending to know is not the answer.

    Here is the response to the report from the Paterno Family:

    “Some number of email exchanges between former Penn State officials have apparently been leaked to the media. Since the Paterno family is not in possession of these emails, it would be inappropriate to comment on their supposed content. To be clear, the emails in question did not originate with Joe Paterno or go to him as he never personally utilized email.”

    “From the beginning, Joe Paterno warned against a rush to judgment in this case. Coach Paterno testified truthfully, to the best of his recollection, in the one brief appearance he made before the Grand Jury. As he testified, when informed of an incident involving Jerry Sandusky in 2001, Coach Paterno, followed University procedures and promptly and fully informed his superiors. He believed the matter would be thoroughly and professionally investigated and he did not interfere with or attempt to compromise any investigation.”
    Newsflash!

    Joey Votto does not care about RBI.

    NEITHER SHOULD ANY OF US

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  3. #962
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I saw this elsewhere, but does it raised a very interesting question....

    The NCAA will jump all over a booster giving a kid $25 or paying him more 'than he deserves' for working an actual job. But they haven't said a peep about this situation.

    Very strange.

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    This is shocking. Some could argue that Sandusky is sick, or disturbed or perverted, but those covering up for him are just plain evil. PSU won't recover from this.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by sonny View Post
    This is shocking. Some could argue that Sandusky is sick, or disturbed or perverted, but those covering up for him are just plain evil. PSU won't recover from this.
    The fall-out will continue, and let me be the first to say we kick PSU out of the Big Ten.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  6. #965
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I think as the days progress, it's becoming more and more clear that this situation was perhaps uglier than any of us could have imagined. If the death penalty doesn't apply here, I'm not sure what the use is for it. The emails also give an insight into the true power Paterno had at Penn State. The three men (two of them his bosses) consulted him on the matter. And then changed their minds. Blows my freaking mind.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I think as the days progress, it's becoming more and more clear that this situation was perhaps uglier than any of us could have imagined. If the death penalty doesn't apply here, I'm not sure what the use is for it. The emails also give an insight into the true power Paterno had at Penn State. The three men (two of them his bosses) consulted him on the matter. And then changed their minds. Blows my freaking mind.
    When things start popping up from 20+ years ago, there is a problem. I wouldnt be surprised one bit if the NCAA took the same approach to Penn State as they did with UCLA in the 70's.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I think as the days progress, it's becoming more and more clear that this situation was perhaps uglier than any of us could have imagined. If the death penalty doesn't apply here, I'm not sure what the use is for it. The emails also give an insight into the true power Paterno had at Penn State. The three men (two of them his bosses) consulted him on the matter. And then changed their minds. Blows my freaking mind.
    Not surprising to me since for a long time Joe Paterno HAD BEEN Penn State. No one sneezed in Happy Valley unless they had Joe's permission. I have thought all along that if a cover up happened then he probably wasn't just complacent, but he rather he had to be a driving force.

    Consider who, besides Jerry, had the most to lose if it became public? Who hired the witness as a full time coach? Who was appointed to be Jerry's 'advisor'? Finally who let Jerry still have access to the football facilities?
    Last edited by puca; 07-01-2012 at 10:28 AM.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Not surprising to me since for a long time Joe Paterno HAD BEEN Penn State. No one sneezed in Happy Valley unless they had Joe's permission. I have thought all along that if a cover up happened then he probably wasn't just complacent, but he rather he had to be a driving force.

    Consider who, besides Jerry, had the most to lose if it became public? Who hired the witness as a full time coach? Who was appointed to be Jerry's 'advisor'? Finally who let Jerry still have access to the football facilities?
    You're absolutely right.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Penn State is apparently like a cult. From perusing their two main boards, most seem to be more focused on the unfairness of this info being leaked. Really disturbed.
    Not to downplay the seriousness of these incidents but you can substitute Penn State with probably every other major college sports program and it would be accurate. Not to pick on Ohio State but it's the best example on RedsZone. Also, what happened at OSU doesn't even compare in seriousness to what happened at PSU but the reactions were very similar when the tattoo scandled happened in Columbus. There were cover-ups, there was righteous indignation and there were attempts to discredit the accusers.

    No one wants to kill the goose who laid the golden egg. PSU officials - including Paterno - were right in thinking that if the scandal were made public it would bring down the whole house of cards. They were wrong in choosing to cover it up but were proven right about what would happen if it were made public.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I alluded to what happened to UCLA b-ball in the 70's. The Bruins werent a storied program until Wooden came along. But they didnt get great until some "shodiness" was involved. By the time the NCAA chose to act on it, Wooden was no longer there. I feel that the Penn State situation will be the same. The Lions weren't nothing until Joe Pa made them. Just as Wooden at UCLA, Paterno is at Penn St. They were two guys that brought schools from obscurity to national prominence. It is a different time now, the media streams stuff to us on a daily basis. But at the end of the day, everybody knows what right and wrong is....including the universities.

    I have already made up my mind there was a cover-up amongst the PSU officials. Hell, I think everyone has. But we arent talking tatoos, money for play, or illegal recruiting here. We are talking about young male children being sexually abused under the banner of Penn St. University. They knew, covered it up, and now must face the consequences.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  12. #971
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Not to downplay the seriousness of these incidents but you can substitute Penn State with probably every other major college sports program and it would be accurate. Not to pick on Ohio State but it's the best example on RedsZone. Also, what happened at OSU doesn't even compare in seriousness to what happened at PSU but the reactions were very similar when the tattoo scandled happened in Columbus. There were cover-ups, there was righteous indignation and there were attempts to discredit the accusers.

    No one wants to kill the goose who laid the golden egg. PSU officials - including Paterno - were right in thinking that if the scandal were made public it would bring down the whole house of cards. They were wrong in choosing to cover it up but were proven right about what would happen if it were made public.
    First, I don't think you can compare the tattoo scandal at Ohio State with the Sandusky ordeal at PSU at all. There's a vast difference between failing to report violations of NCAA rules and not only covering up a heinous crime, but allowing the criminal to continue to bring potential victims around the facilities.

    Actually, I think that if Paterno and the rest of the PSU administration had taken the steps that brought Sandusky's behavior to the attention of the proper authorities and made sure Sandusky was brought to justice earlier, we wouldn't be talking about how PSU should be dropped from the Big 10 and possibly given a death penalty. Sandusky would still be a monster, but wouldn't have had the opportunity to continue abusing boys and PSU's reputatoin and Joe Paterno's legacy would remain intact. In fact, many would have applauded Paterno for taking the appropriate steps to protect boys from harm and helping the victims at that time in seeking justice.
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  13. #972
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Not to downplay the seriousness of these incidents but you can substitute Penn State with probably every other major college sports program and it would be accurate. Not to pick on Ohio State but it's the best example on RedsZone. Also, what happened at OSU doesn't even compare in seriousness to what happened at PSU but the reactions were very similar when the tattoo scandled happened in Columbus. There were cover-ups, there was righteous indignation and there were attempts to discredit the accusers.

    No one wants to kill the goose who laid the golden egg. PSU officials - including Paterno - were right in thinking that if the scandal were made public it would bring down the whole house of cards. They were wrong in choosing to cover it up but were proven right about what would happen if it were made public.
    Many OSU fans (myself included) defended our university, and even our coach, because of the hypocrisy of the NCAA in how it handled similar matters. Tressel was wrong to lie, no question. But there's a HUGE difference between lying about tattoos and memorabilia, and lying about a child sex scandal. I can say with absolute certainy there is no way on God's green earth Tressel, Gene Smith, and E. Gordon Gee don't turn Sandusky over to the dogs if he's an employee of Ohio State.

    I don't think it's fair to say you could substitute any university for Penn State. I agree to a certain extent, fan bases will rally around their guys, even when they're in the wrong. But this is a whole other level of sick.

  14. #973
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    I wouldn't say it this is worse than ANY of us thought. I had no idea how bad it was going to come, or how much worse its going to get. But when you consider that Jerry Sandusky was still out watching high school kid football players on behalf of PSU last season (there was a report I linked somewhere in this thread I believe where a kid ranked in the 40ish range of senior linebackers cancelled Sandusky's return visit to his school to watch him practice when word of this broke out). Nothing regarding the football program happened w/o JoePa knowledge.

    Joe obviously knew about the dealings in '98, he obviously knew what McQuery told him, who knows what else he knew, yet Sandusky still had access to Penn State's facilities just a few months ago. He was still out watching high school kids and (presumably) reporting back to penn state on their potential impact for PSU football.

    Some argued JoePa didn't have control of who had keys to the workout facilities. I said hog wash. If Joe didn't want someone around the campus or facilities, that person wasn't getting around the football program.

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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    First, I don't think you can compare the tattoo scandal at Ohio State with the Sandusky ordeal at PSU at all. There's a vast difference between failing to report violations of NCAA rules and not only covering up a heinous crime, but allowing the criminal to continue to bring potential victims around the facilities.

    Actually, I think that if Paterno and the rest of the PSU administration had taken the steps that brought Sandusky's behavior to the attention of the proper authorities and made sure Sandusky was brought to justice earlier, we wouldn't be talking about how PSU should be dropped from the Big 10 and possibly given a death penalty. Sandusky would still be a monster, but wouldn't have had the opportunity to continue abusing boys and PSU's reputatoin and Joe Paterno's legacy would remain intact. In fact, many would have applauded Paterno for taking the appropriate steps to protect boys from harm and helping the victims at that time in seeking justice.
    Very well said.

    The underlying thing here is that the PSU officials were afraid of throwing a wrench into the "money making machine". To them it started out small, and they turned their heads, but the snow ball kept getting bigger and bigger because they allowed the weasel access to the chicken coop. Just pitiful. It is a shame, all could have been avoided.

    As a Big Ten follower, I am ashamed as well. What happened at Happy Valley is a representation on the rest of the conference. I dont want them in the conference anymore.....the NCAA can do what they want, but I really want them kicked out of the B1G.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  16. #975
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Very well said.

    The underlying thing here is that the PSU officials were afraid of throwing a wrench into the "money making machine". To them it started out small, and they turned their heads, but the snow ball kept getting bigger and bigger because they allowed the weasel access to the chicken coop. Just pitiful. It is a shame, all could have been avoided.
    That's the similarity to the OSU or any other scandal at any other school. Yes, what went on at PSU was far more heinous than what went on anywhere else. However the scandals are covered up because they don't want to throw a wrench in the money making machine.
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