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Thread: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

  1. #106
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Paterno did exactly what he should have when he heard about it: He reported it to authorities at the University. At that point he moved on. The villans here are first the guy who witnessed it,then his Dad, then the PSU President, the AD and Paterno is way down the list.

    This guy has had a spotless record for "forever". It's not right that this should bring down his career such that it is and stain his legacy forever just because all these other folks didn't do the right thing. It wasn't incumbant upon Paterno to report it to police.
    The more I think about the situation the more I agree with this thinking. I try to imagine what I would have done in that situation. The coach who witnessed it was a 28 year old man at that time. I think I would have done my best to stop it but I can't put myself in that situation. I also think that while many people think Paterno should have done more, he did what he was legally required to do. We also don't know if he followed up with the AD or President. I do know that if the AD or President did the right think then Joe wouldn't be in this situation, Penn State wouldn't be in this situation.

    What I find disappointing is the media's coverage of this incident. They won't stop until they ruin both Joe Pa and Penn State football. Very few of them are talking about the actual victims in the case or the disturbing events that Sandusky committed, they are bringing their lynches and going after Joe. The sad thing to me is that once Joe steps down and PSU football is ruined the national media will turn their focus elsewhere and leave the university in ruins. Often times we tend to project moral responsibility on others while we don't hold that same for ourselves.

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  3. #107
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower. So, you report it up the management chain. And when the management chain fails you, you throw your hands up and say "gee, I did everything I could, oh well"?

    I mean really? You just walk away?

    If it were someone witnessed a shoplifting or drinking underage or something with a little less teeth, I could understand that attitude. But we're talking an extremely serious crime against a child with a lot of emotional punch. Pretty darn serious stuff. I just don't know how you can turn a blind eye to that. I really don't.


    No kidding. This is the no brainer of all time.
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  4. #108
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think that's pretty extreme and you're creating a lot more victims. Do we really need more victims? If you include everyone who had knowledge you're not only including the obvious suspects but you're including wives and others close to them.
    If you know what is happening and you don't do everything in your power to stop it....you are an accomplice to the crime in my opinion.

    We aren't talking about covering up a minor infraction. We're talking about the numerous rapes of teenaged (and younger) boys.

    Anybody on Penn State's payroll who had knowledge of the sitation should be fired yesterday.
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    It's unfortunate that Paterno went to the AD and not the police with this and it's too bad that it seems nobody stepped up and "did the right thing". I'm really not sure what else to say about this at this point.
    Aren't you opening yourself up to a possible lawsuit by Penn State? Lets just say he followed up with the AD and the AD said a full investigation has been concluded and because of legal agreements cannot comment further? He goes to the police and they find out that the ad did as he said. JoePa gets drug through the public relations nightmare and is forced out for insubordination.

    He went to the AD and later both the accuser and accusee are still employed? What else is he to suspect than that the school found nothing?

    Regardless of what actually happened I think he was fighting a losing battle. Could he have done more? Yes, but regardless short of him actually PHYSICALLY SEEING IT HIMSELF, I don't think there was any scenario that would have let him stay. He was fighting a losing battle in the war of public opinion.
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  6. #110
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower. So, you report it up the management chain. And when the management chain fails you, you throw your hands up and say "gee, I did everything I could, oh well"?

    I mean really? You just walk away?

    If it were someone witnessed a shoplifting or drinking underage or something with a little less teeth, I could understand that attitude. But we're talking an extremely serious crime against a child with a lot of emotional punch. Pretty darn serious stuff. I just don't know how you can turn a blind eye to that. I really don't.
    Bingo. Especially since a head coach of a college/university is responsible for the well being of so many young men.

  7. #111
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    If this is how Penn State protects young adults, no one representing their institution is allowed in my living room to talk to my kids...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #112
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Paterno himself is a victim here. If the University had handled it properly--reported it to police--no one would be criticizing Paterno today. They'd be praising him for how he handled it and that he did what Jim Tressel didn't. Paterno was let down by the higher ups at the University. I feel sorry for the guy. I really do
    Wow. Gross

  9. #113
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Heck yes.

    A coach is observed sexually assaulting a ten year old in the team's locker room and he's allowed to even walk into the facility the next day?

    That he's allowed to still coach is mind boggling.
    This incident occurred on March 1, 2002. Sandusky retired/resigned in 1999 so he was no longer an active member of the coaching staff at the time of this particular attack. Hoiwever per his retirement agreement with the university, he was given carte blanche at the campus. He was not banned from the PSU campus until 11/6/2011. Over 9 years later!!!

  10. #114
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    OK, for all the people who have condemned Paterno tell me where I am wrong - -

    Paterno goes to police....

    Paterno: I want to report a child abuse.
    Police: Who do you want to report:
    Paterno: Jerry Sandusky. A Grad Assistant at Penn State informed me that he saw Mr Sandusky showering with a ten year old boy.
    Police: Did you witness this?
    Paterno: No.
    Police: OK, tell me what the grad assistant told you.
    Paterno: Just what I said above. He witnessed this from afar and was shaken. Told me that he saw this and had to get right out of there.
    Police: And what did he describe he saw there?
    Paterno: He only told me he saw them showering together (Grand Jury Report)
    Police: And what, if anything, did you do with this information?
    Paterno: The next day I took it to my superiors.
    Police: And what have your superiors done with this info?
    Paterno: Not enough. As far as I know they spoke with Grad Assistant and performed an investigation but its went nowhere. Thats why I am here.
    Police: What is the boy's name?
    Paterno: I don't know.
    Police: Did the investigation look for his name?
    Paterno: I was not involved in investigation so I have no knowledge.
    Police: So, you don't know who the boy was, you did not witness any of this happening, and you were not part of any investigation, is all that correct?
    Paterno: Yes.
    Police: OK, Mr Paterno, our hands are tied here. We are going to need either the witness or your superiors who performed the Investigation to contact us ASAP to proceed further. Unfortunately you are a third party to this and we need an actual witness to proceed any further. How old is the Graduate assistant?
    Paterno: 27 or 28.
    Police: So, a grown man?
    Paterno: Yes.
    Police: Why hasn't he come to us?
    Paterno: You'd have to ask him.

    So, if all that is correct - and I think it is - the only thing Paterno could have done was to go to police and give Graduate Assistant's name to them. So where is the outrage at the G.A. here? That dude is the one who could of stopped all this, not JoePa. A 28 year old man is witness to this heinous act and never goes to police? And because of that you all blame Joe Paterno?

    Look, I think Joe Paterno needs to step down and I think he morally should have done more. But, HE DID NOT WITNESS ANYTHING. So far, in this thread, one person has stated that he should have known because he was a friend and another suggests that he is just a notch below a pedophile. NO. The villian here is Jerry Sandusky. Thats where all this anger should be directed. After that the DA and the Penn State officials who turned the other eye in 1998 when they had Sandusky on tape and let him off. After that its the Graduate Assistant who saw this, went to Paterno and then Penn State's schmucks but never the police. Maybe he had a reason, maybe the schmucks told him to sit on this and for some reason he listened. But that dude saw a 58 year old have anal sex in the shower with a 10 year old boy - he needed to do more. Starting with stopping them while in shower. Just a "Hey, what's going on here" would of sufficed. Next (and these people might be more culpable then G.A.) are Curley and that other dude, or the Penn State Schmucks. They mailed in the investigation. Then the D.A. who refused to prosecute in 1998. Then the wife, who had to of known considering her husband was allowing 10 year old boys sleep in her basement, her husband would disappear, plus her husband would take this same boys to hotel rooms, I mean this is not normal behavior (especially since, knowing pedophile behavior he lost interest sexually in his wife years ago, if there was ever a sexually component to marriage ever). Then, finally, Paterno.

    So, I am not saying Paterno is right here. No way, no how. But I find it funny how much outrage is directed at him when he did what law required. We are all morally offended by this, I get that. But why are most directing outrage at someone 8 or 9 down on list when there are plenty more higher up that nary a person is mentioning???
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  11. #115
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    This isn't about your legal obligations. This isn't about "doing all that was required by law".

    This is about a trusted member of your staff committing the most heinous crimes imaginable. If the scenario you just played out happened exactly as you said, and you're an attorney, so I believe you that it would have been like that, his responsibility was only beginning at their lack of interest.

    He should have moved heaven and earth to pressure the witness and the AD and anyone else in upper management who had any say over how this was handled to do the right thing.

    Instead, he turned a blind eye and did nothing.

    A real leader of men, he is.

    You think Paterno is proud of how he handled things?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  12. #116
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    So, an assistant coach comes to you and tells you he winessed another assistant coach having anal sex with a 10 yr. old boy in your football locker room's shower.
    One of us doesn't have their facts straight. If it's me please set me straight.

    I was under the impression that this pervert was not an asst coach in 2002 when the incident occured and that he'd left the program years ago. If he was still an employee under Paterno at the time, then that's different.

    So what was it?

  13. #117
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Paterno himself is a victim here. If the University had handled it properly--reported it to police--no one would be criticizing Paterno today. They'd be praising him for how he handled it and that he did what Jim Tressel didn't. Paterno was let down by the higher ups at the University. I feel sorry for the guy. I really do
    The fact that you think Jim Tressel is remotely relevant to this discussion is mind boggling to me. At worst, Tressel supported efforts to cheat to recruit players to win football games. There is no comparison to what allegedly happened here.

    And of course your argument assumes that Paterno had this one report, and that's it. But that doesn't really make any sense. Sandusky was a huge part of the Penn State program for decades, and if the allegations are true he was a serial rapist during some or all of that time. He was actively investigated by University policy in 1998 for allegedly molesting children. Mysteriously, in 1999, at age 54, he retired. It just isn't believable that the only hint Paterno had that this guy was a child molester was the one report in 2002, unfortunately.

  14. #118
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    But why are most directing outrage at someone 8 or 9 down on list when there are plenty more higher up that nary a person is mentioning???
    Because no one is calling for the 8-9 people above him on the list to keep their job or excusing their behavior.

    Plus like it or not, JoePa is the face of the program.
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  15. #119
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Paterno: He only told me he saw them showering together (Grand Jury Report)
    Incorrect. Paterno testified that "the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

    That's hardly "showering together." Curley and Schultz are the ones that testified and down played/lied about the incident.

    If JoePa says the above to police an investigation would have occurred especially considering who JoePa is to that area.

    So, if all that is correct - and I think it is - the only thing Paterno could have done was to go to police and give Graduate Assistant's name to them. So where is the outrage at the G.A. here? That dude is the one who could of stopped all this, not JoePa. A 28 year old man is witness to this heinous act and never goes to police? And because of that you all blame Joe Paterno?
    Agreed. This GA acted cowardly and I believe his days are numbered at PSU too.

  16. #120
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    Re: Incredible ugliness at Penn State

    "Paterno goes to police" = wrong

    There are so many ignorant and repugnant statements in this thread.


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