Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

[helenkyle82]

Yorman Rodriguez

[dougdirt]

I have read what Redsof72 has written multiple times about Yorman, and I'm not impressed. He seems to have the heart of an 8 year old whose father is making him play the game.

I voted Soto for his power numbers and I have Torreyes a notch below.

Here is one of the posts I saw about Yorman's attitude problem. He is not in my top ten, you can't coach heart.

He was 18 years old. He was dealing with several off the field personal issues during the season..... while being 2300 miles from home. He had a child. His grandmother and best friend died on the same day in separate incidents. He is immature by nature given that he was 18 years old (like most 18 year olds are). There were 3 guys under 19 in the entire league who spent even half a season in the league. He was one of them. Of course he is going to be immature. By definition, he is that given the surrounding group. I just think that some people are taking this entirely too far without looking at the context.

[mace]

No question, Yorman is still very young and has time to mature and get his act together. We're all hoping he does. That said, and without full knowledge of the circumstances, he has issues that most 18-year-old professional ballplayers simply don't. You don't see many guys missing in action as he has been, and you don't hear of many having their attitude questioned as much by scouts and seasoned observers. If makeup were a tool, it appears that Yorman's would grade-out very low at this point. That doesn't disqualify him as a prospect, but it certainly enters into the mix for an exercise like this.

[The DARK]

Torreyes for his production and superb defense at a critical position. Then Soto, Sappelt, and Y-Rod.

Really, though, most of the guys from Cozart through Y-Rod are incredibly close. Kudos to our farm system.

Also, petition to add Juan Duran in the next poll as well?

[dougdirt]

No question, Yorman is still very young and has time to mature and get his act together. We're all hoping he does. That said, and without full knowledge of the circumstances, he has issues that most 18-year-old professional ballplayers simply don't. You don't see many guys missing in action as he has been, and you don't hear of many having their attitude questioned as much by scouts and seasoned observers. If makeup were a tool, it appears that Yorman's would grade-out very low at this point. That doesn't disqualify him as a prospect, but it certainly enters into the mix for an exercise like this.

Missing in action? The guy had a hurt shoulder to end the season.

As for not hearing guys attitude questioned so much.... well, I think this can really be two fold. First, there simply aren't many 18 year olds to compare him to at the levels he has been at. I didn't read anything from the Billings papers last year about any attitude issues. Not once. We never heard about it from Baseball America or Baseball Prospectus or any other evaluation service. Secondly, we are in a day and age where information is much more freely available, even compared to 5 years ago. The Reds haven't had a prospect the age of Yorman in full season ball (aside from Ronald Torreyes) since at least back to 1995, when I stopped looking. The point is, we simply don't have much of a baseline comparison at all to work with here as far as "well we heard about it" because we have one example to compare it to in the last 15+ years and it was a guy who also happened to there at the same time. When we toss in the circumstances that I brought up in my earlier post, I think it is just a bit much to jump onto those "attitude" issues that he apparently has, at least to the point where he is being dinged by them at age 18. If we are still hearing about it in 4-5 years, it is an issue.

[bubbachunk]

It looks like we are going to end up with our first run off vote. The polls run for 3 days at a time right?

[Mario-Rijo]

He was 18 years old. He was dealing with several off the field personal issues during the season..... while being 2300 miles from home. He had a child. His grandmother and best friend died on the same day in separate incidents. He is immature by nature given that he was 18 years old (like most 18 year olds are). There were 3 guys under 19 in the entire league who spent even half a season in the league. He was one of them. Of course he is going to be immature. By definition, he is that given the surrounding group. I just think that some people are taking this entirely too far without looking at the context.

It's more than immaturity with Yorman it's entitlement. Something his fellow 18 year old counterparts don't seem to have. My 11 year old nephew asked all 3 for an autograph after a game this season and Yorman not only refused but waved him away arrogantly and needlessly. And it's not only that you can see it in his play.

And entitlement as we know usually adds up to a guy not putting in the work he needs to reach his full potential.

[camisadelgolf]

It looks like we are going to end up with our first run off vote. The polls run for 3 days at a time right?

They run three days, but because I got a late start on Sunday, I made it four. We may start the runoff a little early though. I'm playing it a little bit by ear unless people have a problem with it.

[dougdirt]

It's more than immaturity with Yorman it's entitlement. Something his fellow 18 year old counterparts don't seem to have. My 11 year old nephew asked all 3 for an autograph after a game this season and Yorman not only refused but waved him away arrogantly and needlessly. And it's not only that you can see it in his play.

And entitlement as we know usually adds up to a guy not putting in the work he needs to reach his full potential.

What counterparts? As I have noted, the Reds have had TWO in the last 15+ years in full season ball. And even then, if we are only going to be talking about all the minor leaguers and full season ball, with the amount of data we get now compared to even five years ago on these players, we are still working with an incredibly small number of 18 year olds in full season ball to even begin to try and compare him to.

As for turning away a kid for an autograph.... that doesn't tell me anything about the guy on the field. At all.

Again, I just feel that some are making a much larger deal about this than is needed.

[dougdirt]

They run three days, but because I got a late start on Sunday, I made it four. We may start the runoff a little early though. I'm playing it a little bit by ear unless people have a problem with it.

What are the lengths for run offs? They aren't 3 days are they?

[mace]

Missing in action? The guy had a hurt shoulder to end the season.

As for not hearing guys attitude questioned so much.... well, I think this can really be two fold. First, there simply aren't many 18 year olds to compare him to at the levels he has been at. I didn't read anything from the Billings papers last year about any attitude issues. Not once. We never heard about it from Baseball America or Baseball Prospectus or any other evaluation service. Secondly, we are in a day and age where information is much more freely available, even compared to 5 years ago. The Reds haven't had a prospect the age of Yorman in full season ball (aside from Ronald Torreyes) since at least back to 1995, when I stopped looking. The point is, we simply don't have much of a baseline comparison at all to work with here as far as "well we heard about it" because we have one example to compare it to in the last 15+ years and it was a guy who also happened to there at the same time. When we toss in the circumstances that I brought up in my earlier post, I think it is just a bit much to jump onto those "attitude" issues that he apparently has, at least to the point where he is being dinged by them at age 18. If we are still hearing about it in 4-5 years, it is an issue.

No, there was an earlier occasion when he wasn't around and nobody knew where he was. I wish I could remember the exact scenario. I believe it was when all the other highly touted young guys reported early to spring training and he was conspicuously absent. Again, there may have been legitimate circumstances. We just don't know. But there's sort of a buildup of caution flags that we've been seeing with him.

Does the fact that he was playing in Dayton really have much to do with it? Is it harder to play with a good attitude in Dayton than it is in, say, the AZL, where there are a lot of 18-year-olds?

You make good points, and there's certainly something to be said for giving him the benefit of the doubt. But if a guy is to be considered a top prospect, it's pretty important that he goes about his business the right way. We simply haven't seen that yet from Yorman. Some guys have latent power that shows up after a couple years. Maybe Yorman has some latent makeup.

[camisadelgolf]

What are the lengths for run offs? They aren't 3 days are they?

In the past, they have been one day. Do you think a longer time would be better?

[dougdirt]

In the past, they have been one day. Do you think a longer time would be better?

One day seems fine to me, I just was thinking that three days would be longer than needed, but wasn't sure what the timeline was for them.

[camisadelgolf]

Unless Rodriguez or Soto breaks away, we'll likely do the runoff tomorrow.

[Mario-Rijo]

What counterparts? As I have noted, the Reds have had TWO in the last 15+ years in full season ball. And even then, if we are only going to be talking about all the minor leaguers and full season ball, with the amount of data we get now compared to even five years ago on these players, we are still working with an incredibly small number of 18 year olds in full season ball to even begin to try and compare him to.

As for turning away a kid for an autograph.... that doesn't tell me anything about the guy on the field. At all.

Again, I just feel that some are making a much larger deal about this than is needed.

Who cares what level they are, immaturity for their age is the point. And Yorman is acting like a 14 year old these days from all reports. As far as turning a kid away that is to be expected, but not the way he did it.

Of course you do Doug you think that for every prospect you like. Which is fine if you really see them that way you have earned the right to make your argument and it have some merit. But you obviously don't know any better than anyone else because all you have layed out is conjecture yourself. No facts to back up your argument that this particular player is acting less professional than any other person for their age. So let people have their opinion and we will let you have yours.