Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

[Joseph]

Wow. I feel dumb.

Been a long week. TGIF.

Don't feel bad, I got just as excited.

[dougdirt]

Totally agree.Those worried about the K rate haven't taken into account that his whip and era went down as well.Looks like he might be pitching with his head along with his arm.

His ERA and WHIP went down because he had a very unsustainable batting average on balls in play and HR per FB rate. Both of those are going to go up next year, meaning his ERA and WHIP are going to also go up unless he changes something in his walk rate or strikeout rate to counteract those things. Baseball history has shown us these things happen over and over and over and only incredibly special types of pitchers can "beat" history and while I like Cueto, he isn't that type of pitcher.

[Benihana]

His ERA and WHIP went down because he had a very unsustainable batting average on balls in play and HR per FB rate. Both of those are going to go up next year, meaning his ERA and WHIP are going to also go up unless he changes something in his walk rate or strikeout rate to counteract those things. Baseball history has shown us these things happen over and over and over and only incredibly special types of pitchers can "beat" history and while I like Cueto, he isn't that type of pitcher.

Who on the current staff will be better than Johnny Cueto in 2012?

[dougdirt]

Who on the current staff will be better than Johnny Cueto in 2012?

I wouldn't be comfortable saying anyone WILL be. I do think some could be. Cueto is the safe bet to be the best, but he won't come close to repeating what he did this year unless he comes out and has changes in his peripherals (lower walk rate, higher strikeout rate, better K/BB, more ground balls).

[Benihana]

I wouldn't be comfortable saying anyone WILL be. I do think some could be. Cueto is the safe bet to be the best, but he won't come close to repeating what he did this year unless he comes out and has changes in his peripherals (lower walk rate, higher strikeout rate, better K/BB, more ground balls).

IMO, we should not trade what will likely be our best pitcher, when what we need to compete is more/better pitching. That's what this topic is about.

[MattyHo4Life]

I'd rather deal with the Yankees than the Braves. Yankees traded prospects do actually pan out, while Braves traded prospects tend to flame out. (in other words the Braves know who to hold onto...the Yanks have enough $ not to care one way or the other)

I've heard this comment a lot when the Cardinals traded JD Drew to the Braves. Everybody was saying that Adam Wainwright couldn't be very good if the Braves were willing to give him up. Well... there may be some truth to the statement, but they were very wrong about Adam Wainwright.

[dougdirt]

IMO, we should not trade what will likely be our best pitcher, when what we need to compete is more/better pitching. That's what this topic is about.

I must have missed where someone suggested trading Cueto. I wouldn't be actively trying to do that unless it was for a pitcher who is better than he is now and is also under control for at least 2 more years.

[AtomicDumpling]

Again, Cueto has said this year that he's focusing more on getting outs without strikeouts, in order to go deeper into games.
It seemed to work well.
If the Reds are going to trade Cueto this year, they might as well unload everyone and start all over again..
Cueto is exactly what the team needs next year. They need to find another guy like him, not trade him.

Every year, there's these gloom and doom predictions for Ceuto.. Declining K rate, he's too short, etc, etc..
He's an affordable TOR arm.. Why in the world would we want to trade him?

I don't think anybody wants to trade him. The Reds are not looking to get rid of him or give up on him. Saying the Reds should listen to offers for Cueto is not the same as saying the Reds should trade Cueto. As good as Cueto is there are players out there that are better. It would be foolish to reject a great trade offer simply because he is the Reds best pitcher. If you can get an even better pitcher for him wouldn't you do it? It all depends on what the other team is offering. If you want to get something good you have to give up something good.

I do think Cueto's reduced strikeout rate is a concern. A pitcher's K/BB and K/9IP ratios are far better indicators of future success than his prior season's ERA. He should be (and likely is) still trying to strike out batters as often as possible. The key is to throw strikes and rely on your "stuff" (movement, speed and location) to cause swings and misses. In the past he relied too heavily on tricking batters into swinging at balls out of the strike zone (the "Edison Volquez syndrome"), but this year he avoided wasting pitches much better. If you have great stuff you don't have to burn up 5-7 pitches to strike out each batter. Just trust your stuff, throw it in the zone and watch the batters strike out in 3-4 pitches. Then you can go deeper into the game and provide more value for your team.

[Slyder]

Clayton Kershaw, anybody?

http://www.redreporter.com/2011/11/1...to-ckincinnati

Yes Please. If this were legit.

[RedlegJake]

Cueto isn't good enough to be untouchable. Come on. He's not Kershaw. If someone wants to really overpay then you do it. He is good enough that he might entice an overpayment, too, and then you use extra talent you've acquired plus perhaps or part or two on hand to acquire a Pineda, or a Shields. Then you've added a pitcher just as good, or better, and added another player or two who can really help. If no one wants to knock your socks then you keep him. Dangling Cueto is almost a can't lose proposition - you win if you keep him, you win if you deal in (in those circumstances).

[Slyder]

Cueto isn't good enough to be untouchable. Come on. He's not Kershaw. If someone wants to really overpay then you do it. He is good enough that he might entice an overpayment, too, and then you use extra talent you've acquired plus perhaps or part or two on hand to acquire a Pineda, or a Shields. Then you've added a pitcher just as good, or better, and added another player or two who can really help. If no one wants to knock your socks then you keep him. Dangling Cueto is almost a can't lose proposition - you win if you keep him, you win if you deal in (in those circumstances).

We don't have the proven arms behind Cueto to even consider trading him in a no chance to lose deal. We need to add to our pitching not trade the one guy who has been closest to the pinnacle that we have had since Jose Rijo and the 90 Reds. You take Cueto off this team without getting 2 upper rotation arms (at least) and its a waste of a very limited resource. You trade from a strength to address a weakness, the Reds have plenty of 3-5 guys already but we have only 1 who has proven on the field to be better than that.

I would rather trade Bruce AND Votto before I would consider trading Cueto. Pitchers who are proven and signed affordably are worth their weight in GOLD. We might as well nuke this thing and start over if we are serious about trading Cueto because we don't currently have the arms to compete with the NL even with him and without him we are even further behind the rest of the league.

[Vottomatic]

Cueto isn't good enough to be untouchable. Come on. He's not Kershaw. If someone wants to really overpay then you do it. He is good enough that he might entice an overpayment, too, and then you use extra talent you've acquired plus perhaps or part or two on hand to acquire a Pineda, or a Shields. Then you've added a pitcher just as good, or better, and added another player or two who can really help. If no one wants to knock your socks then you keep him. Dangling Cueto is almost a can't lose proposition - you win if you keep him, you win if you deal in (in those circumstances).

I agree. The Reds finished 3rd and under .500. They have Votto for 2 more years or less if they decide to trade him before free agency. The Reds have small market budget constraints.

Every player on the Reds team should be available for the right price. If other teams aren't willing to overpay, then you keep them.

[Vottomatic]

Clayton Kershaw, anybody?

http://www.redreporter.com/2011/11/1...to-ckincinnati

I actually read that proposed trade on another site. But maybe they got it their info from the same place. Fake news travels fast?

Reds get Kershaw
Dodgers get Alonso, Grandal, Bailey, Volquez

[mattfeet]

I actually read that proposed trade on another site. But maybe they got it their info from the same place. Fake news travels fast?

Reds get Kershaw
Dodgers get Alonso, Grandal, Bailey, Volquez

Not worth it for that list of Reds. Id include Grandal OR Alonso + the others.

[mattfeet]

I actually read that proposed trade on another site. But maybe they got it their info from the same place. Fake news travels fast?

Reds get Kershaw
Dodgers get Alonso, Grandal, Bailey, Volquez

Not worth it for that list of Reds. Id include Grandal OR Alonso + the others.