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Thread: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

  1. #61
    Member dunner13's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfeet View Post
    Not worth it for that list of Reds. Id include Grandal OR Alonso + the others.
    Really? for a 23 year old who went 21-5, 2.28ERA 9.6 SO/9 and .977 WHIP I would give up those four guys in a second. Kershaw is one of the best pitchers in baseball and at 23 he has the potential to get even better. If the Dodgers are willing to trade him then Walt needs to make it happen.

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  3. #62
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Clayton Kershaw is the kind of pitcher you back the truck up for. He's exactly the kind of guy The Reds need to go up against the Halladay's and Lee's of the world. I'd do it in a heartbeat.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  4. #63
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    Really? for a 23 year old who went 21-5, 2.28ERA 9.6 SO/9 and .977 WHIP I would give up those four guys in a second. Kershaw is one of the best pitchers in baseball and at 23 he has the potential to get even better. If the Dodgers are willing to trade him then Walt needs to make it happen.
    If Mez is the catcher of the future, why do we need Grandal?
    If Votto is the first baseman now and of the future, why do we need Alonso?
    Volquez is in the doghouse.
    You have to give up talent to get talent. In this case, maybe overpay a bit.

    That's 3 former #1 Reds picks. 3 guys who have major league experience. A near Cy Young contender (Volquez) coming off TJ surgery. Alonso has shown he can hit major league pitching. Bailey has had his moments. Grandal spent his first year in the minors with success.

    Definitely a fair offer.
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  5. #64
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Kind of interesting. All this is riffing off of a joke article, but it's leading to a kernel of truth: the Reds do have enough top-notch prospects to do this kind of deal. If they really did want to acquire a young TOR pitcher and if one was available, it's a doable deal, and they shouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger.

  6. #65
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe View Post
    Kind of interesting. All this is riffing off of a joke article, but it's leading to a kernel of truth: the Reds do have enough top-notch prospects to do this kind of deal. If they really did want to acquire a young TOR pitcher and if one was available, it's a doable deal, and they shouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger.
    It's a joke article? I wasn't under the impression that RedReporter ran satirical type stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  7. #66
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    It's a joke article? I wasn't under the impression that RedReporter ran satirical type stuff.
    by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 11, 2011 11:19 AM EST in Fake News
    Read More: 111111 is practical jokes day, fake, this offseason is boring, making **** up is what blogs are all about, i think im going to have a sandwich and a soda for lunch today, completely made up trade rumors, this is fake, totally fake, not real, fake as hell, Homer Bailey (P - CIN), James Loney (1B - LOS), Edinson Volquez (P - CIN), Clayton Kershaw (P - LOS), Yonder Alonso (LF - CIN), Yasmani Grandal (C - CIN), Cincinnati Reds, Los Angeles Dodgers
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #67
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    ah, looked right over that. Bummer.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  9. #68
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I actually read that proposed trade on another site. But maybe they got it their info from the same place. Fake news travels fast?

    Reds get Kershaw
    Dodgers get Alonso, Grandal, Bailey, Volquez
    Doubt it would work but I'd jump all over that. And IMO so would the Reds, in fact I would imagine they might even toss in a 5th lesser player. This is a no brainer I think, although it is a fake offer it's one I'd be looking to try to make. Back up the prospects truck.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 11-14-2011 at 08:53 AM.
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  10. #69
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Besides a closer, the Jays need an every day second baseman.

    Cincinnati Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips is available.
    Per Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun.

    IMO, if you're not willing to deal Votto b/c you're not willing to accept the team getting worse at 1B, you're probably not willing to deal Phillips, given the hole his trade would leave at 2B.

    Still, I really like Toronto as a trade partner for the Reds -- lots of young arms in that system -- and if the Reds know Phillips is going to go for one of the top 2B contracts in the game, it likely makes sense to deal him. Jocketty's history is to backfill 2B, plus with the organization trying to accelerate Hamilton's development, I doubt they want to block 2B with a long-term deal right now (Cozart can always move to 2B if they like Hamilton as the long-term SS).

    Intriguing rumor, because we really haven't heard it, and it's stated in no uncertain terms.
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  11. #70
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Besides a closer, the Jays need an every day second baseman.

    Cincinnati Reds second baseman Brandon Phillips is available.
    Per Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun.

    IMO, if you're not willing to deal Votto b/c you're not willing to accept the team getting worse at 1B, you're probably not willing to deal Phillips, given the hole his trade would leave at 2B.

    Still, I really like Toronto as a trade partner for the Reds -- lots of young arms in that system -- and if the Reds know Phillips is going to go for one of the top 2B contracts in the game, it likely makes sense to deal him. Jocketty's history is to backfill 2B, plus with the organization trying to accelerate Hamilton's development, I doubt they want to block 2B with a long-term deal right now (Cozart can always move to 2B if they like Hamilton as the long-term SS).

    Intriguing rumor, because we really haven't heard it, and it's stated in no uncertain terms.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  12. #71
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    As common as it seems that teams like to back fill their 2b position, there just aren't but 4-5 other 2b that will have a 3-6 WAR season consistently. In effect, Phillips is to 2b what, say, Prince Fielder or Mark Texiera are to 1st base - an elite 1a player, slightly off the pace of those like Pedroia, or Votto, etc. I would hope the return would be commensurate with his value at that position. I don't really see a match, since their good players are either cost controlled or too far away from the majors.
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  13. #72
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Per Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun.

    IMO, if you're not willing to deal Votto b/c you're not willing to accept the team getting worse at 1B, you're probably not willing to deal Phillips, given the hole his trade would leave at 2B.

    Still, I really like Toronto as a trade partner for the Reds -- lots of young arms in that system -- and if the Reds know Phillips is going to go for one of the top 2B contracts in the game, it likely makes sense to deal him. Jocketty's history is to backfill 2B, plus with the organization trying to accelerate Hamilton's development, I doubt they want to block 2B with a long-term deal right now (Cozart can always move to 2B if they like Hamilton as the long-term SS).

    Intriguing rumor, because we really haven't heard it, and it's stated in no uncertain terms.
    I wouldn't trade Phillips right now. I would trade him at the deadline if we are out of the race. Reds need to go for it this year. Trading Phillips to Toronto doesn't help that cause, unless its Joey Bats, Brett Lawrie, or Ricky Romero coming back (which was not the implication of this rumor/suggestion.)

    If Reds are out of it come July, I'd offer him to Toronto for some combination of Drabek, McGuire, and/or Marisnick. He is the kind of asset that a lot of contending teams would really want to have, so I'd demand a lofty return.
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  14. #73
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    If Reds are out of it come July, I'd offer him to Toronto for some combination of Drabek, McGuire, and/or Marisnick. He is the kind of asset that a lot of contending teams would really want to have, so I'd demand a lofty return.
    This is best-case scenario thinking. It assumes Phillips plays well. It assumes Toronto will still have the need and will be in contention (pretty significant assumption in the AL East).

    Keep in mind that trading Phillips may mean the team can use the $$$ saved to acquire a valuable major league player.
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  15. #74
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    He is the kind of asset that a lot of contending teams would really want to have
    How many contending teams will there be in July? How many of those will see 2B as the place to upgrade (pitching is almost always what teams are looking for at that point)? How many of those will be a good match for the Reds?

    The market in summer cannot be predicted. Teams wait until the last week, even the last few days, sometimes, before deciding if they'll be in that market.

    Odds are very good that the winter trade market is the best time to get return for BP, if they know they can't keep him beyond 2012.

    Of course, if the plan is to go all in in 2012, you keep him. But I'd point out that 2013 is when the league goes to 2 wildcard teams. Might it be better for the Reds to aim in that direction? Saving Phillips' salary now, and getting back an arm or two that may help in 2013 (and possibly beyond) could be the way to go, especially if the money saved on BP could help sign another player who will be around in 2013 and/or could help keep Votto (at 17MM) in 2013.
    Last edited by lollipopcurve; 11-14-2011 at 12:27 PM.
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  16. #75
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    How many contending teams will there be in July? How many of those will see 2B as the place to upgrade (pitching is almost always what teams are looking for at that point)? How many of those will be a good match for the Reds?

    The market in summer cannot be predicted. Teams wait until the last week, even the last few days, sometimes, before deciding if they'll be in that market.

    Odds are very good that the winter trade market is the best time to get return for BP, if they know they can't keep him beyond 2012.

    Of course, if the plan is to go all in in 2012, you keep him. But I'd point out that 2013 is when the league goes to 2 wildcard teams. Might it be better for the Reds to aim in that direction? Saving Phillips' salary now, and getting back an arm or two that may help in 2013 (and possibly beyond) could be the way to go, especially if the money saved on BP could help sign another player who will be around in 2013 and/or could help keep Votto (at 17MM) in 2013.

    Joey Votto is around for two more years. I don't think Reds should waste one of those years aiming for 2013.

    I wouldn't trade Votto or Phillips. If Reds lose one or both to free agency then presumably the team could use the salary slots to acquire different free agents.


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