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Thread: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

  1. #751
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Jocketty says his pursuit of starting pitching has been "very frustrating" and he's not close on anything.
    If I didn't know any better I'd say he's laying the groundwork for the inevitable: doing nothing.

    This franchise really knows how to keep a fanbase engaged and enthusiastic.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  3. #752
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Here are the tires I think Walk ought to kick... The unifying criteria is being around the plate with nuetral to GB tendencies. If Arroyo can leverage the Reds defense by inducing contact to look like a quality starter, the Reds should be able to find a market ineffciency in less dazzling K rates but above average command.

    Top target: Kuroda... He clearly would be an ideal. Then look at Maholm...both are free agents that only require money and likely shorter term commitments. Also try to talk Valquez out of retirement for the same reasons.

    Next target: Pavano or Garza. Pavano would likely be cheapest but both would require giving up talent in trade but are likely the least painful arms to acquire via that route as opposed to a Shields/ Pineda top arm. Garza actually misses bats. Fister would've been an ideal addition but that ship sailed last season.

    Anyway, i'm sure there are guys that aren't popping into the top of my head that would represent targets in the same genre.... But again, basically poke at a potential market inefficiency to get guys who can leverage the defense but wont require a long term commitment.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    If I didn't know any better I'd say he's laying the groundwork for the inevitable: doing nothing.

    This franchise really knows how to keep a fanbase engaged and enthusiastic.
    It's beginning to sound that way.
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Without reading through the whole thread . . . I haven't seen Cuddyer discussed much, but he's versatile, productive, and a guy whom teammates and team officials rave about. I mean, big-time. As an outfielder, he'd be a bit redundant in Cincinnati (barring a trade), but would also be useful in spelling Votto occasionally and possibly helping out at 3B. Getting a little old. Might be too expensive. So he's no slam-dunk, by any stretch. But I can see him as the type that Jocketty would value, and who, indeed, could be a major asset.

  6. #755
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    MissEnquirer twitter =Jocketty said the #Reds have contacted agents for left-hander Joe Saunders and infielder Ryan Theriot.
    I can spell,I just can't type!!

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    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Walt; Its frustrating as a fan listening to you come up with excuses. You have the deepest richest pool of prospects and major league talent yet are such a tight ass that you can't pull the trigger. Huston Street for Volquez and you couldn't get that done? It's not Josh Hamilton but it is acquiring an All Star caliber player who you can sell to your fan base. Forget about Michael Cuddyer, because he isn't worth 3 years 21 million that Willingham got let alone 3 years 30 million that he is asking for. Quit throwing names out there of who you have interest in and focus on improving this ball club. Because frankly you've sat on your hands since the Scott Rolen deal.
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    If I were Jack Z, GM of the Ms, i'd be all over Yonder. He could compete/rotate with Smoak for first or become their cheaply controlled DH (the best kind). The Ms aren't likely to contend this year especially given what the Angels have done this off season. The Ms have three highly touted arms nearing readiness for a debut in their rotation. Pineda, while exciting, is also a great chip.

    I'd kick the tires on a Pineda for Alonso+ type of trade that could infuse their already solid system with more near ready talent in order to maximize the chances of hitting on some full time players. It works for the Reds because they infuse their rotation with electric talent while likely only trading players that are blocked/surplus.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If I were Jack Z, GM of the Ms, i'd be all over Yonder. He could compete/rotate with Smoak for first or become their cheaply controlled DH (the best kind). The Ms aren't likely to contend this year especially given what the Angels have done this off season. The Ms have three highly touted arms nearing readiness for a debut in their rotation. Pineda, while exciting, is also a great chip.

    I'd kick the tires on a Pineda for Alonso+ type of trade that could infuse their already solid system with more near ready talent in order to maximize the chances of hitting on some full time players. It works for the Reds because they infuse their rotation with electric talent while likely only trading players that are blocked/surplus.
    I've been advocating an Alonso-for-Pineda swap* for months now. As an M's fan, it's good to have you on board.

    The Reds could then use their payflex to sign Carlos Beltran to a 2 year deal.

    2B Phillips
    CF Stubbs/Heisey
    1B Votto
    LF Beltran
    RF Bruce
    C Mesoraco
    3B Rolen
    SS Cozart

    SP Pineda
    SP Cueto
    SP Leake
    SP Bailey
    SP Arroyo

    That might give the Reds the best defensive team ever assembled, and that team should win the division for the next two years.


    * I'd happily throw in a Dave Sappelt/Ryan LaMarre type, plus a pitching prospect not named Corcino or Stephenson.
    Last edited by Benihana; 12-14-2011 at 05:31 PM.
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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I've been advocating an Alonso-for-Pineda swap* for months now. As an M's fan, it's good to have you on board.

    The Reds could then use their payflex to sign Carlos Beltran to a 2 year deal.

    2B Phillips
    CF Stubbs/Heisey
    1B Votto
    LF Beltran
    RF Bruce
    C Mesoraco
    3B Rolen
    SS Cozart

    SP Pineda
    SP Cueto
    SP Leake
    SP Bailey
    SP Arroyo

    That might give the Reds the best defensive team ever assembled, and that team should win the division for the next two years.


    * I'd happily throw in a Dave Sappelt/Ryan LaMarre type, plus a pitching prospect not named Corcino or Stephenson.
    It would probably take more than Alonso/LaMarre*.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #760
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the teams with starting pitchers to deal value them very highly and those with position players to deal (like the Reds) value their players/prospects (Alonso, Grandal) as high -- meaning no one is budging and making the deals happen.
    Win the Division

  12. #761
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post

    I'd kick the tires on a Pineda for Alonso+ type of trade that could infuse their already solid system with more near ready talent in order to maximize the chances of hitting on some full time players. It works for the Reds because they infuse their rotation with electric talent while likely only trading players that are blocked/surplus.
    Would an Alonso, Corcino and another top end type of prospect get us moving toward the right direction?

  13. #762
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the teams with starting pitchers to deal value them very highly and those with position players to deal (like the Reds) value their players/prospects (Alonso, Grandal) as high -- meaning no one is budging and making the deals happen.
    Agreed. Beane reportedly asking the Marlins for Mike Stanton for Gio Gonzalez tells you how wild things might actually be. If that is true, Gio is staying in Oakland until his contract runs out because no one is going to give up that amount of talent for him. I don't think the Marlins would trade Stanton straight up for Joey Votto, much less a guy who is merely solid like Gio Gonzalez.

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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Would an Alonso, Corcino and another top end type of prospect get us moving toward the right direction?
    JZ has a thing for high ceiling arms but considering answers from within, their system is weakest up the middle.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    If Walt thinks the fans are sympathetic because of his "frustration" he is mistaken.

    As I've said before, I don't want to hear about his frustration.

    If he can't trade, then figure out a way to sign a free agent.

    Or get creative. Include Phillips in a deal and revamp the team a bit to get more pitching. Make several deals for pitchers and position players that change the mix and benefit the team.

    But mostly, stop venting frustration. I really don't want to hear it. It's not helping me get over the stagnation.

  16. #765
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Hot Stove Rumors (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If Walt thinks the fans are sympathetic because of his "frustration" he is mistaken.

    As I've said before, I don't want to hear about his frustration.

    If he can't trade, then figure out a way to sign a free agent.

    Or get creative. Include Phillips in a deal and revamp the team a bit to get more pitching. Make several deals for pitchers and position players that change the mix and benefit the team.

    But mostly, stop venting frustration. I really don't want to hear it. It's not helping me get over the stagnation.
    I don't believe for a second that Bob would sign off on a trade that would move a guy like Phillips, Bruce, Votto or Cueto. Not for a second. Even if the return was quite good.


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