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Thread: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

  1. #1
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    Aroldis Chapman is back throwing pain-free, but Winter Ball is no longer part of his offseason plan.
    Weve decided against sending him to Puerto Rico, Walt Jocketty said. Hes on a strength-and-conditioning program in Arizona. Hell go to Florida after that and continue to work out.
    The plan was to go to Puerto Rico to pitch in Winter Ball after the Oct. 31 start. The Reds did not want to take that risk. Unlike the AFL, Winter Ball is not a controlled situation and it is very competitive.
    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/

    Something does not quite add up here. They must have known the fact that Winter Ball is not a contolled situation when they originally pencilled him down there. What changed between that time and now? Nothing.

    Go back to sleep, Walt. You have no clue of what you are doing. Maybe by year six Chapman can be a starter.

    Left field and shortstop have been holes for three years that Walt has been unable to plug. Walt has been a do-nothing GM who is looking more and more like he got lucky on Rolen for half a season. I really don't expect anything at all to be done this off-season, as much as I would love to be wrong about this.

    And to think they just extended Jocketty for three more years. Incredible.
    Last edited by texasdave; 11-09-2011 at 04:48 PM.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    At some point you have to wonder if the Reds wouldn't be better served by trying to use Chapman as trade bait, rather than continue to "develop" him. I understand the logic of using Chapman out of the bullpen in 2010, because it allowed them to control his innings pitched and he was able to make a big impact on the bullpen but everything since that point has been done in a very haphazard manner. Do they even have a plan for him?

  4. #3
    Retro-Gamer Krawhitham's Avatar
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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    So the plan to stretch him out over the winter ended up being two appearances totaling 2 2/3 innings

    What is the plan now? Start him in the minors for half the season? One would assume he is on a innings limit too, like Leake has been on the last two seasons.

    With Leake they claimed you do not want to add more than 40 innings from year to year. He only pitched 63 innings including the minors in 2011. That give him what 17 starts (at 6in per outing) for the season, are they really going to waste 7-8 starts in the minors and have him in the majors for 10 starts?

    Chapman is on a 5 year contract with a 6th as a player option, 2012 will be his 3 year of that contract.

    It is time for the Reds to realize he is a closer or just trade him to someone else. Chapman MIGHT become a #2 or #1 in his 5 season, he will be useless next season, 2013 he will have ups and downs like Cueto did in 2010. 2014 will be when he may or may not be a stud, but there is no way the Reds resign him even if he becomes that stud.

    The Reds need a closeer

    The Reds already have 6 or 7 starters (if D-Train returns)
    Bronson Arroyo
    Mike Leake
    Johnny Cueto
    Homer Bailey
    Edinson Volquez
    Travis Wood
    Dontrelle Willis

    Chapman might be better than some or all of them but not next season and most likely not in 2013 either

    The Reds also have Sam LeCure and I assume more in the minors about ready to come up

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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post

    It is time for the Reds to realize he is a closer or just trade him to someone else. Chapman MIGHT become a #2 or #1 in his 5 season, he will be useless next season, 2013 he will have ups and downs like Cueto did in 2010. 2014 will be when he may or may not be a stud, but there is no way the Reds resign him even if he becomes that stud.

    The Reds need a closeer

    The Reds already have 6 or 7 starters (if D-Train returns)
    Bronson Arroyo
    Mike Leake
    Johnny Cueto
    Homer Bailey
    Edinson Volquez
    Travis Wood
    Dontrelle Willis

    Chapman might be better than some or all of them but not next season and most likely not in 2013 either

    The Reds also have Sam LeCure and I assume more in the minors about ready to come up
    I'm with you in letting Chapman try the closer role. His second half last year was pretty impressive, and without winter ball to stretch him out, it just seems to make more sense to leave him in the bullpen.

    As for Willis, though, I'd try him out as a lefty specialist rather than a starter if the Reds do decide to bring him back. A bullpen with Masset, Ondrusek, Chapman and Willis actually sounds pretty solid to me, and would leave a little more room in the starting rotation for potentially acquiring someone in the trade market.

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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post

    It is time for the Reds to realize he is a closer or just trade him to someone else. Chapman MIGHT become a #2 or #1 in his 5 season, he will be useless next season, 2013 he will have ups and downs like Cueto did in 2010. 2014 will be when he may or may not be a stud, but there is no way the Reds resign him even if he becomes that stud.

    The Reds need a closeer

    The Reds already have 6 or 7 starters (if D-Train returns)
    Bronson Arroyo
    Mike Leake
    Johnny Cueto
    Homer Bailey
    Edinson Volquez
    Travis Wood
    Dontrelle Willis

    Chapman might be better than some or all of them but not next season and most likely not in 2013 either

    The Reds also have Sam LeCure and I assume more in the minors about ready to come up
    I'm with you in letting Chapman try the closer role. His second half last year was pretty impressive, and without winter ball to stretch him out, it just seems to make more sense to leave him in the bullpen.

    As for Willis, though, I'd try him out as a lefty specialist rather than a starter if the Reds do decide to bring him back. A bullpen with Masset, Ondrusek, Chapman and Willis actually sounds pretty solid to me, and would leave a little more room in the starting rotation for potentially acquiring someone in the trade market.

  7. #6
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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    the reds imo have no clue what there doing.

    trade votto then we have problems still
    trade alonso then we have problems still
    trade this/that

    blah

    I just don't understand how to fix this team long/short time unless we added payroll.

    we have a lot good pitcher but non great.

  8. #7
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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    While I have stated that I think the best way to improve is to trade Votto I would like to see something happen immediately. We need an upgrade at SS, LF, SP and CL.

    I think Chapman is your closer so that is solved. (anything but an over priced CL and I think anything over $5 mil is overpriced when you have a guy who throws 100 mph)

    LF: if you don't trade Votto, then you have Sappelt, Heisey and Alonso; if you do trade Votto you save money to spend on a SS or LF while moving alonso to 1st

    SS: if we aren't going to sign or trade then we have Cozart

    SP: Role the dice and see what happens I guess since we have 8 SP who are projected #3-#5 guys (except Cueto who is a #2)

    The biggest problem I see from the front office is a lack of decisiveness. I don't care if we have to oversell to get a SP because our farm system has position talent. What we don't have is deep pitching talent. The reason the Red Sox and Yankees get big signings is because the set the market instead of waiting for the market to come to them. Be assertive and do something. I think the fan base right now would rather them take a leap of faith and be wrong than be stationary and go 79-81 again.

  9. #8
    Member LeDoux's Avatar
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    Re: No Winter Ball for Aroldis Chapman

    I salute the Reds casual policy of player development. Just put Chapman and Alonso in a uniform and point them to the bench/bullpen - things will just work themselves out. No need to worry about roles and goals.


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