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Thread: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

  1. #76
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    The Marlins, who sent Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante to Detroit yesterday, have also had teams inquire on Hanley Ramirez, Carlos Lee, Josh Johnson,Ricky Nolasco and Randy Choate. The Orioles are known to be seeking pitching and corner infield help. It wouldn't be surprising to see Baltimore pursue Ramirez or Johnson, since either player would have an impact in 2012 and on next year's team.
    Have to think "Guillen" is being shopped as well......
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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  3. #77
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Well, it's interesting because statistically speaking, Cozart is ahead of Hanley by .2 WAR by Fangraphs' measure. Even if we account for margin of error, we could call it a draw.

    I do wonder, though, if Hanley being moved back to shortstop would get him back in the right frame of mind and get his production back closer to pre-2010 levels. Even if Hanley is back to being the upgrade we'd expect, one wonders if it would be enough to justify paying him the salary he makes.
    Throw in the questionable character issues, real or not, and this isn't a Walt style move. I for one believe Hanley will be back, and would smoke in GABP as well, but would want to know more about the whole picture before adding him to the Reds. Cozart, IMO, could turn in some very bad years at the plate from year to year and Hanley would hedge against that during this batch of contending years. Almost certainly, the Reds would need to deal Arroyo and keep the arb guys in Leake, Bailey and Latos despite their raises. Funny though, dealing Arroyo has been the last thing they've looked to do.

  4. #78
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    Throw in the questionable character issues, real or not, and this isn't a Walt style move. I for one believe Hanley will be back, and would smoke in GABP as well, but would want to know more about the whole picture before adding him to the Reds. Cozart, IMO, could turn in some very bad years at the plate from year to year and Hanley would hedge against that during this batch of contending years. Almost certainly, the Reds would need to deal Arroyo and keep the arb guys in Leake, Bailey and Latos despite their raises. Funny though, dealing Arroyo has been the last thing they've looked to do.
    I agree with you, it doesn't seem like the type of player he'd acquire. I'm only mildly interested in it, nonetheless, because I think Hanley really could be bought lower, and like you said, he might bounce back if/when switched back to shortstop. That reason alone might make it worthwhile depending on what the Reds had to give up.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #79
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I agree with you, it doesn't seem like the type of player he'd acquire. I'm only mildly interested in it, nonetheless, because I think Hanley really could be bought lower, and like you said, he might bounce back if/when switched back to shortstop. That reason alone might make it worthwhile depending on what the Reds had to give up.
    You can't have a stronger offensive record than Hanley's had at SS. That's an important fact to consider. He's in that elite category that I believe is entirely likely to rebound at some point. I could quickly talk myself into a scenario where he'd be perfect for this team. It could be a Joe Morgan moment for this franchise. I just don't see it happening, and that's okay too this year. It's just that the blood's in the water now and I'd like to see what it would take.

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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    I wouldn't take Hanley over Cozart at SS. I wouldn't and I know I'll get kicked for it but Hanley has serious character issues. He has a huge head and a payroll to match. His emotions seem to control his production on the field, too. Very immature. Zack isn't untouchable to me by any means I just think Hanley is the wrong type of guy. If you really absolutely need him I could see it but he isn't worth the headaches given the talent the Reds already have. Sometimes a guy just isn't worth what he brings for all his ability. Now I could change my mind if he was available without too much given up and some money came back as well. Like they just wanted to get rid of him and they'd take HRod straight up. Never happen though.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 07-24-2012 at 04:19 PM.

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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Well, it's interesting because statistically speaking, Cozart is ahead of Hanley by .2 WAR by Fangraphs' measure. Even if we account for margin of error, we could call it a draw.

    I do wonder, though, if Hanley being moved back to shortstop would get him back in the right frame of mind and get his production back closer to pre-2010 levels. Even if Hanley is back to being the upgrade we'd expect, one wonders if it would be enough to justify paying him the salary he makes.

    There is a reason why Ramirez was moved from SS, other than Reyes of course. He's a very poor defender there.

  8. #82
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Salary relief at key positions is a key to this teams future, look for little moves, not big ones... especially ones that take a guy who has been more of an enigma the past 2 seasons than a ballplayer.

  9. #83
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    There is a reason why Ramirez was moved from SS, other than Reyes of course. He's a very poor defender there.
    He's a poor defender, but they don't make that position switch unless they get Reyes.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #84
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Ha, to be fair, that was a pretty big upset in my opinion. Not many of us were able to see that coming.
    Ha! Hence my post about Castellini not spending money like he did on Votto. No one saw that coming. If you're gonna be fair about it.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. #85
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    I don't want Ramirez. Dude had an OPS over .900+ from 2007-2009. He isn't even OPSing .800 last year or this year. His WAR has dropped from 7.1 back in 2009 to 2.6 (2010) to 0.0 (2011) to 0.4 this year. And according to Cot's, he makes $15M (2012), $15.5M ('13) and $16M ('14) before becoming a free agent. Adding that kind of payroll is not the kind of move Walt would make. And not for a player trending downward.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #86
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Well, it's interesting because statistically speaking, Cozart is ahead of Hanley by .2 WAR by Fangraphs' measure. Even if we account for margin of error, we could call it a draw.

    I do wonder, though, if Hanley being moved back to shortstop would get him back in the right frame of mind and get his production back closer to pre-2010 levels. Even if Hanley is back to being the upgrade we'd expect, one wonders if it would be enough to justify paying him the salary he makes.
    What if Hanley wasn't a shortstop or an infielder at all? What if he was moved to the OF...maybe CF? If he wer ein this lineup and inserted into the top spot of the order what do the stat gods say he would do for the team? Anything above what we already have?
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  13. #87
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan View Post
    What if Hanley wasn't a shortstop or an infielder at all? What if he was moved to the OF...maybe CF? If he wer ein this lineup and inserted into the top spot of the order what do the stat gods say he would do for the team? Anything above what we already have?
    Well, that's a great question. I'm not sure what he'd be like in the outfield, but at his current pace, his offense wouldn't justify the move very well (assuming he were also a below-average fielder out there).

    If he were hitting like pre-2010 Hanley, I imagine his bat could carry his weight at several positions including left.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  14. #88
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    The character issues are real, and continue this season.
    Last edited by Dan; 07-24-2012 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Wrong URL
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  15. #89
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    There's much more crow to eat in all of the "Reds will never be able to sign Votto to a LTC" threads.
    And yet, I don't seem to remember anyone here predicting the Reds would pony up over $200 million to keep him into his 40s.
    /r/reds

  16. #90
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    Re: Reds; Take Note From The Marlins

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    And yet, I don't seem to remember anyone here predicting the Reds would pony up over $200 million to keep him into his 40s.
    There were plenty of people (myself included) saying the Reds would make a serious attempt to re-sign him. I'm not sure if anybody saw him getting that much coin, but there were people saying it could be done.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.


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