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Thread: Finding a Closer

  1. #1
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Finding a Closer

    Just something I thought might help us find a reliever to close in 2012. Blue marks the FA's. The rest are TRADE TARGETS! YEAH!

    Saves + Holds Per Blown Save 2011 (Minimum 20 sv+hld)

    Jose Valverde 49
    Antonio Bastardo 25
    Sergio Romo 24
    Tony Sipp 24
    John Axford 23
    Koji Uehara 22
    LaTroy Hawkins 20
    Ryan Madson 18

    Joel Peralta 13
    Andrew Bailey 13
    Chris Sale 12
    David Robertson 12
    Mike Adams 11
    David Hernandez 11
    J.J. Putz 11
    Greg Holland 11
    Javy Guerra 11
    Javier Lopez 11
    Jonathan Papelbon 10
    Joel Hanrahan 10
    Jonny Venters 10
    Sean Marshall 10
    Drew Storen 9
    Chris Perez 9
    Scott Downs 9
    Mariano Rivera 9
    Heath Bell 9
    Rafael Soriano 8
    Huston Street 8
    Eric O'Flaherty 8
    Rafael Betancourt 8
    Brandon League 7
    Joe Nathan 7
    Brian Wilson 7
    Daniel Bard 7
    Brian Fuentes 7
    Jason Motte 7
    Francisco Rodriguez 7
    Bill Bray 7
    Jason Isringhausen 7
    Vinnie Pestano 6
    Joaquin Benoit 6
    Francisco Cordero 6
    Leo Nunez 6
    Craig Kimbrel 6
    Matt Thornton 6
    Grant Balfour 6
    Tyler Clippard 5
    Jim Johnson 5
    Nftali Feliz 5
    Sergio Santos 5
    Fernando Salas 5
    Mark Melancon 5
    Chad Qualls 4
    Kyle Farnsworth 4
    Jesse Crain 4
    Jose Veras 4
    Joakim Soria 4
    Kerry Wood 4
    Carlos Marmol 4
    Jordan Walden 3
    Kevin Gregg 3
    Matt Capps 2

    If nothing else, this list tells me that most teams count on their young, cheap talent to hold or close games. There are certainly some specialists in this list that would likely never get the call to close, either. Anyway, what you will. Who is your 2012 closer?
    2015 Rotation: Under Construction

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  3. #2
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Chapman, Masset, Bray, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Wood, Lecure with Boxberger on the way. Leave Chapman in relief and they don't need to mess with the pen. Chapman/Boxberger will be the 2012 version of Ventors/Kimbrall by the all star break. Bray is one of the best middle lefties around. Masset is still solid if he's not burnt up in May and doesn't price himslef out of Cincy. Arredondo will be much better in his second season back from TJ and could end up being better than them all.

    Put all monetary resources toward a proven starting pitcher. If they must sign somebody, go for somebody cheap with experience to guide the kids but enough persepctive to accept a reduced role. I like Jason Isringhausen for aboout $1 Million more than bigger names for bigger bucks.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-11-2011 at 08:52 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    One thing to remember about the importance of a closer, is that it really doesn't come into effect until later in the season.

    Many playoff bound teams struggle with the back of their bullpen for a good part of the season, then get a closer at the deadline, or find one in their organization that is finally ready by the Aug/Sept. and do fine.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Chapman, Masset, Bray, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Wood, Lecure with Boxberger on the way. Leave Chapman in relief and they don't need to mess with the pen. Chapman/Boxberger will be the 2012 version of Ventors/Kimbrall by the all star break. Bray is one of the best middle lefties around. Masset is still solid if he's not burnt up in May and doesn't price himslef out of Cincy. Arredondo will be much better in his second season back from TJ and could end up being better than them all.

    Put all monetary resources toward a proven starting pitcher. If they must sign somebody, go for somebody cheap with experience to guide the kids but enough persepctive to accept a reduced role. I like Jason Isringhausen for aboout $1 Million more than bigger names for bigger bucks.
    mth, I respect your views, but don't agree on this one.

    Get the antacid ready because your bullpen will struggle in the late innings.

    Chapman will be in long relief, starting, or at AAA. The Reds are stretching him out to start eventually. He's not going to be a late inning reliever.

    Boxberger probably needs AAA time. If he's a Red, it's middle relief until he gets more experience. His control needs work, he's just not ready for prime time.

    Masset, Ondrusek, Bray, all faded in 2011. Nobody knows how they will come back. Masset had a 3.40 ERA in 2010 - had some good numbers that year but still not stellar. He hasn't been top notch since 2009.

    Arredondo did look good at the end of 2011. Maybe he's a late inning guy. Maybe.

    This team needs to add late innings relievers. They don't have to cost a fortune, but new blood is needed in the pen.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-28-2011 at 04:22 PM.

  6. #5
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Andrew Bailey ranks pretty high on this list, so although his real peripherals are trending back some, he was efficient in getting the job done.

    I don't know what LaTroy Hawkins is doing next year, but he could play Arthur Rhodes or David Weathers...
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  7. #6
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Is Aardsma still available as a free agent?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #7
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents

    he's not on this list
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    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Why sign a guy if you have someone with in the organization that might have the stuff to be a good closer. Persoanlly I have always thought Volquez could be a lights out closer if given the shot.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  10. #9
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Is Aardsma still available as a free agent?
    I think he had TJ surgery not long ago, or something else that takes quite a while to recover from.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  11. #10
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    He's on this list, and hasn't signed with anyone yet:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012-mlb-free-agents
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #11
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Why sign a guy if you have someone with in the organization that might have the stuff to be a good closer. Persoanlly I have always thought Volquez could be a lights out closer if given the shot.
    I agree. But would Volquez consider it?

    I think the Chapman starting pitching experiment isn't working out either.

    Moves I'd consider:
    1. Leave Chapman in bullpen.
    2. Bring up Boxberger.
    3. Try Volquez in the bullpen
    4. Closer by committee
    5. I'd also sign a reliever, not a closer, off the free agent wire.

    Bray
    Boxberger
    Chapman
    Ondrusek
    Masset
    Arredondo
    Volquez
    Sign someone in free agency, and trade one of the above.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  13. #12
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Remember in 2010 how everyone was ready to run Cordero through with a sharp stick because he was always coming into games walking guys?

    Multiply that by a trillion and you'll have Volquez as a closer.

    Volquez is a guy who needs to be dealt to a non-contending, pitching poor team trying to catch lightning in a bottle. He should either be packaged for a more steady starter or dealt for prospects. I think he might be able to come back, but the Reds can't afford to dedicate a spot to him along with Chapman and Bailey. That's three guys who all have a ton of promise, but are also the most likely to provide nothing or worse to the rotation.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    You're not going to get anything for Volquez on the open market. Why not give him a shot in the pen to see how he does in ST, especially if he is the odd man out in the rotation. If Volquez can focus on his two best pitches it may cut donw on the walks enough for us to stomach some wildness.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  15. #14
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    A guy to keep an eye on, Leo Nunez/Juan Carlos Oviedo/Whatever his name is. The Marlins are reportedly signing Heath Bell, Nunez has his identity issues, but could be had on the cheap. He was good, until the Marlins collapsed, mid season. A sign of problems or his environment? Will he be able to re enter the country?
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  16. #15
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    Re: Finding a Closer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I agree. But would Volquez consider it?
    He considers it or he gets buried in AA. He sucked last year, in ML and AAA, he doesn't get to tell the team how to use him. If the Reds say we want to try you at closer, he shoudl say, Yes SIR.


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