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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

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  • LHP Tony Cingrani

    5 7.25%
  • RHP Drew Cisco

    0 0%
  • UT Todd Frazier

    5 7.25%
  • UT Brodie Greene

    0 0%
  • SS Didi Gregorius

    0 0%
  • LHP Ismael Guillon

    0 0%
  • OF Ryan LaMarre

    0 0%
  • RHP Kyle Lotzkar

    0 0%
  • 2B Henry Rodriguez

    0 0%
  • OF Yorman Rodriguez

    31 44.93%
  • 3B Gabriel Rosa

    0 0%
  • OF Dave Sappelt

    10 14.49%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    18 26.09%
  • other (please list below)

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    His stint with the Cincinnati Reds?

    By the way, Todd Frazier deserves some more votes soon. He has good power and versatility. He may not start right away, but he will play a role in the big leagues and is ready to help.
    So a guys first 100 at bats in the Majors tells you all that you need to know?

    I will be the first to admit, when he came back from an oblique strain, he wasn't quite swinging as hard as he was before it, and his power took a step backwards.... but you simply can't make judgments off of guys based on something as small as 100 at bats. It is almost always a terrible idea. The guy is a 30 doubles/15 HR type of hitter.

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  3. #17
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    What does it matter? Slugging % is what measures power. If you're looking for HR power, than Sappelt isn't you're guy, but he has great range gets on base and can probably accumulate more than 50 Extra Base hits per season. He has power the way Pete Rose had power. He's being characterized more in the Willy Taveras mold. IF he had Willy T power, he wouldn't even make my top 40. He has plenty of extra base power and I have him at number 4 and I'm a guy who values HR more than many on here do.

    Code:
    Name	PAs	Slg	OBP	OPS	HR	PA/HR	XBH	PA/XBH	BA	ISOP
    Bruce	1512	0.551	0.366	0.917	61	24.79	189	8.00	0.308	0.243
    'Cisco	2554	0.502	0.317	0.819	112	22.80	282	9.06	0.286	0.216
    Frazier	2217	0.477	0.354	0.831	74	29.96	223	9.94	0.281	0.196
    Votto	3016	0.477	0.386	0.862	97	31.09	272	11.09	0.289	0.188
    Mes	1796	0.455	0.344	0.799	59	30.44	168	10.69	0.269	0.186
    Alonso	1340	0.466	0.370	0.837	36	37.22	127	10.55	0.293	0.173
    Heisey	2032	0.458	0.365	0.823	52	39.08	175	11.61	0.285	0.173
    Sappelt	1781	0.459	0.362	0.821	31	57.45	141	12.63	0.309	0.150
    BPhil	3074	0.418	0.339	0.757	67	45.88	242	12.70	0.274	0.144
    Stubbs	1847	0.401	0.364	0.765	28	65.96	138	13.38	0.269	0.132
    Still has a higher ISOp abd HR Frequency than Stubbs or Phillips. He's not Juan Pierre.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  4. #18
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So a guys first 100 at bats in the Majors tells you all that you need to know?

    I will be the first to admit, when he came back from an oblique strain, he wasn't quite swinging as hard as he was before it, and his power took a step backwards.... but you simply can't make judgments off of guys based on something as small as 100 at bats. It is almost always a terrible idea. The guy is a 30 doubles/15 HR type of hitter.
    He had 31 homers in 1781 minor league plate appearances. Don't see how he hits 15 homers a year in the big leagues.

    Maybe in a career year at GABP with a huge number of at bats. With the wind blowing out.

    Against Bronson Arroyo.

  5. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    He had 31 homers in 1781 minor league plate appearances. Don't see how he hits 15 homers a year in the big leagues.

    Maybe in a career year at GABP with a huge number of at bats. With the wind blowing out.

    Against Bronson Arroyo.
    He had 297 at bats this year in Louisville with 7 HR's and he wasn't quite the same guy once he came back from his oblique strange. Louisville is a tougher place to hit a HR than Cincinnati. Give him 600 at bats, or close to it and that is pretty close to 15 HR's.

  6. #20
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    He had 297 at bats this year in Louisville with 7 HR's and he wasn't quite the same guy once he came back from his oblique strange. Louisville is a tougher place to hit a HR than Cincinnati. Give him 600 at bats, or close to it and that is pretty close to 15 HR's.
    If I follow your logic, using this unique "pro rated metric", then your project that Frazier hits 30+ homers for Cincy next year, right?
    If that is correct, why isn't Frazer a top 3 prospect for you?

  7. #21
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    If I follow your logic, using this unique "pro rated metric", then your project that Frazier hits 30+ homers for Cincy next year, right?
    If that is correct, why isn't Frazer a top 3 prospect for you?
    No, I don't. But it isn't because he doesn't have the power to, it is because I don't think he will make enough contact to do so. He isn't a good contact hitter, which is going to push his average and on-base percentage down, which means he isn't an every day player.

    If Todd Frazier were a guy who would strike out 15% of the time or less, then yes, I would say he is a guy who could hit 30 HR's. Still not sure he would be a Top 3 prospect though because of his defensive positions that would push down his value some.

  8. #22
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    I follow you. Does Sappelt get more ABs next year than Frazier (assumin both are healthly and have decent enought offseasons and spring training to be judged fairly) with the Reds?

  9. #23
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    I follow you. Does Sappelt get more ABs next year than Frazier (assumin both are healthly and have decent enought offseasons and spring training to be judged fairly) with the Reds?
    Probably not, because Sappelt will be behind Alonso and Stubbs in CF/LF, so he probably spends most of his season with Louisville again. Frazier could find himself in a utility role that will lend himself some at bats.

  10. #24
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    He had 297 at bats this year in Louisville with 7 HR's and he wasn't quite the same guy once he came back from his oblique strange. Louisville is a tougher place to hit a HR than Cincinnati. Give him 600 at bats, or close to it and that is pretty close to 15 HR's.
    You just made my point.

    Sappelt will never get 600 at bats to hit "pretty close to 15 HR's." That kind of homer production doesn't warrant starting player at bats.

    Of course, if he was an on base machine, Sappelt might get close to 600 at bats. But he doesn't walk much either.

    He's a singles and doubles hitter who doesn't walk and few teams will give him starting hitter at bats with that skill set. He's dependent on balls finding holes and hitting in gaps.

    Not easy to succeed that way. That's why I see him as a backup.

  11. #25
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    For some reason at some point I concluded that Torreyes is pronounced "Torre- yea" and immediately replace the lyrics "Carry on my wayward son" with "Torreyes my wayward son." It is unfortunate but has been stcuk in my head ever since.
    Please carry on with your regularly scheduled thread.

    Kansas - "Carry On Wayward Son" 1976 Video - YouTube

  12. #26
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    You just made my point.

    Sappelt will never get 600 at bats to hit "pretty close to 15 HR's." That kind of homer production doesn't warrant starting player at bats.

    Of course, if he was an on base machine, Sappelt might get close to 600 at bats. But he doesn't walk much either.

    He's a singles and doubles hitter who doesn't walk and few teams will give him starting hitter at bats with that skill set. He's dependent on balls finding holes and hitting in gaps.

    Not easy to succeed that way. That's why I see him as a backup.
    It is plenty easy to succeed that way when you are making a lot of contact. And he does that. And bat Sappelt second and he will get close to 600 at bats.

  13. #27
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Well if Trout is the #2 prospect in baseball, then Torreyes shouldn't be far behind .

    Yorman at #10 is ok, but I think that Torreyes outright deserves that spot after the season he had, which was preceded by equal success the year before.

  14. #28
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And yet here we are at #10 and he still hasn't been picked. The fact that we had to pull out Mike Trout to compare Torreyes season to speaks volumes IMO. I don't know why people continue to overlook this kid. You don't have to hit for HR power to be a top-notch prospect IMO. He's got every other tool you could hope for from what I've seen & read. Personally, I had Ronald in my top FIVE.
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  15. #29
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    And yet here we are at #10 and he still hasn't been picked. The fact that we had to pull out Mike Trout to compare Torreyes season to speaks volumes IMO. I don't know why people continue to overlook this kid. You don't have to hit for HR power to be a top-notch prospect IMO. He's got every other tool you could hope for from what I've seen & read. Personally, I had Ronald in my top FIVE.
    Eh, the two players seasons weren't even close to comparable aside from batting average. Trout is a center fielder, walks a ton more, has a ton more power, is bigger, faster and stronger too.

    As for Torreyes, he is a three tool player. He doesn't have power and his arm isn't anything to write home about. There are even some scouts who don't think his defense is that good (listen to the BP Podcast a week ago or so).

    Have to really love the hit tool though. It truly is an impressive thing to see, much less when you look at the fact that it came from an 18 year old. That said, Torreyes is my #11 guy. Could easily put him at #10 and not worried about it. But I can't argue him being higher than that.

  16. #30
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #10 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Eh, the two players seasons weren't even close to comparable aside from batting average. Trout is a center fielder, walks a ton more, has a ton more power, is bigger, faster and stronger too.

    As for Torreyes, he is a three tool player. He doesn't have power and his arm isn't anything to write home about. There are even some scouts who don't think his defense is that good (listen to the BP Podcast a week ago or so).

    Have to really love the hit tool though. It truly is an impressive thing to see, much less when you look at the fact that it came from an 18 year old. That said, Torreyes is my #11 guy. Could easily put him at #10 and not worried about it. But I can't argue him being higher than that.
    Scout examination of defense seems to be an iffy area altogether, especially when it comes to the fringe prospects. It's particularly easy for a scout to watch Torreyes miss a single ball that flew a couple feet over his arm and make assumptions about his height, even if he wouldn't have caught it in most circumstances anyway. It's just naturally tricky to determine a skill where the only mistakes or spectacular plays happen on rare occasions. There's always going to be some variation in perception.

    One thing he didn't have going for him this season is power, but from what I've heard in the past he's not incapable of showing a little bit of pop. I bet 10 HR per season could be expected from him. And even if no one's particularly high on his arm, it's not the most important of tools for a second baseman. So while he may not have all the tools, it seems like he has all that he needs to succeed in a major league role, and is putting them together a lot faster than Yorman.


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