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Thread: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

  1. #136
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'd be careful to ascribe too much of that to growth. In essence in the IU and ILL games they played it close and lost, in this one they played it close and won. More than anything it shows if you take a game down to the wire, the talent differential goes out the window and the game becomes a coin flip. It's why less talented teams always try to bunker down and make the game as short as possible. If you ask the Buckeyes before a game with Northwestern if they'd rather have a coin flip(win expectation 50%) then play the game they'd of course turn it down. If you asked Northwestern, they'd of course say yes.

    So I don't know if they've grown so much as the coin flipped to tails in the first two games and to heads on Saturday.
    That's true, but I do feel they played better down the stretch in the Wisconsin game. In both the Illinois and Indiana games the offense was tight and disorganized and the defense was reactionary. It wasn't perfect against Wisconsin but I felt the level of play and execution down the stretch was better. Buford's 3 was probably the most clutch shot of the season.

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  3. #137
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'd be careful to ascribe too much of that to growth. In essence in the IU and ILL games they played it close and lost, in this one they played it close and won. More than anything it shows if you take a game down to the wire, the talent differential goes out the window and the game becomes a coin flip. It's why less talented teams always try to bunker down and make the game as short as possible. If you ask the Buckeyes before a game with Northwestern if they'd rather have a coin flip(win expectation 50%) then play the game they'd of course turn it down. If you asked Northwestern, they'd of course say yes.

    So I don't know if they've grown so much as the coin flipped to tails in the first two games and to heads on Saturday.
    You are going to have close games. They took care of the ball, made foul shots and played tough d late Saturday. In the IU and Ill tight games, the guards made turnovers down the stretch. It isn't luck, its improvement at crunch time--execution vs. Folding
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    You are going to have close games. They took care of the ball, made foul shots and played tough d late Saturday. In the IU and Ill tight games, the guards made turnovers down the stretch. It isn't luck, its improvement at crunch time--execution vs. Folding
    Paul throwing shot in after shot in is luck. There are just some games that something out of the ordinary happens and you are lucky to win the game. More than anything else you hope you aviod that come tournament time.

    Buckeyes got more than they expected from Purdue last night. I am always amazed in the way officials can dictate the game. OSU was damn near in the bonus early on in the first half. They benefitted from a tight whistle until Sullinger and Craft got 4 fouls with about 8 minutes to go. It was nice seeing Bufford play like a NBA player last night. He just took over the game when he was really OSU's only option.

    What is happening to Seibert? Guy rarely ever gets on the court.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Paul throwing shot in after shot in is luck. There are just some games that something out of the ordinary happens and you are lucky to win the game. More than anything else you hope you aviod that come tournament time.
    Random (which is different than luck), sure, but the Buckeyes still had a chance to win the game late and made turnovers and wasted possessions down the stretch. That was the story of both the Big 10 losses
    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Buckeyes got more than they expected from Purdue last night. I am always amazed in the way officials can dictate the game. OSU was damn near in the bonus early on in the first half. They benefitted from a tight whistle until Sullinger and Craft got 4 fouls with about 8 minutes to go. It was nice seeing Bufford play like a NBA player last night. He just took over the game when he was really OSU's only option.
    The Buckeyes flexed their depth and growth muscles last night. I know the tendency in fandom is to blame everything on your team, as I know the "what happened to the D" are the low hanging fruit on that game. What I saw is that Purdue executed an offensive game plan flawlessly and created some matchup problems with the Buckeyes. Painter is a sharp dude, and he found something that he had and his guys executed it. I saw no lack of intensity on the Buckeyes D, they were simply schooled and had no answer--until late when Thompson, Ravenal, and Scott made life more difficult on the D end. What a pleasant surprise that was. For Buford, was glad to see him get to wear the hero's laurel, he gets abused for his inconsistency and meek demeanor that sometimes makes him quietly disappear. He showed what he can do when he HAS to be the man. Don't get me wrong, he frustrates me too, but he is also a scapegoat at times.
    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    What is happening to Seibert? Guy rarely ever gets on the court.
    Didn't perform. Made shots in the Northwestern game, hasn't hit anything since, and that is all he can do. He'll get his chance the next two years.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    You are going to have close games. They took care of the ball, made foul shots and played tough d late Saturday. In the IU and Ill tight games, the guards made turnovers down the stretch. It isn't luck, its improvement at crunch time--execution vs. Folding
    Perhaps. But again a lot of what we see as execution is variance. If a guy is an 80% FT shooter, and makes 4 free throws early in a game, is it folding if he misses one in the last minute? Sometimes turnovers, missed free throws, etc. happen at inopportune times.

    And I don't mean this as a criticism, Ohio State and Kentucky are far and away the best teams I've seen all year, but as Danny O'Shea says in "Little Giants" you only need that one time." When you play a close game, whether its against Purdue or IU or Wisconsin or Illinois, you leave yourself vulnerable to the one time Brandon Paul is going to go nuts, or the one time when an official is going to call a foul at an inopportune time.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Random (which is different than luck), sure, but the Buckeyes still had a chance to win the game late and made turnovers and wasted possessions down the stretch. That was the story of both the Big 10 losses
    In today's era of college basketball you aren't going to see any undefeated teams anymore. There is just too much competition at all levels. When something random like Paul happens you just have to tip your hat and move on. OSU could have won that game if it weren't for Paul throwing one in falling away, double teamed, on the sideline.

    Every game has turning pionts. I also think its tough for a team to come out amped up for 30+ games a season. Its much easier come tourney time where its a one and done situation.

    The Buckeyes flexed their depth and growth muscles last night. I know the tendency in fandom is to blame everything on your team, as I know the "what happened to the D" are the low hanging fruit on that game. What I saw is that Purdue executed an offensive game plan flawlessly and created some matchup problems with the Buckeyes. Painter is a sharp dude, and he found something that he had and his guys executed it. I saw no lack of intensity on the Buckeyes D, they were simply schooled and had no answer--until late when Thompson, Ravenal, and Scott made life more difficult on the D end. What a pleasant surprise that was. For Buford, was glad to see him get to wear the hero's laurel, he gets abused for his inconsistency and meek demeanor that sometimes makes him quietly disappear. He showed what he can do when he HAS to be the man. Don't get me wrong, he frustrates me too, but he is also a scapegoat at times.
    I don't know if I like Dan Dakich or dislike him. He isn't too fond of OSU and announces the game like a coach where any basket made is a result of poor defense. He points out a lot of interesting things, but he expects zero mistakes to be made on defense. I guess that brings me to the Purdue game, sometimes the offense just makes plays. Sometimes the defense plays faulty and others the offense exploits a defesnive flaw. It was almost like Purdue traded defense for offense to create a mismatch. I was somewhat shocked to see Matta stay in the man and not switch to zone. It was nice to see OSU be able to win without playing great D and having to score.

    As for Bufford there have been times when he takes awful shots. In the past they have happened in the most important times. But he possesses the uncanny ability to score. Last night he looked like a NBA player. He hit the mid-range jumper, hit the 3 off the screen, drove the ball to the hole, etc. If he plays like that (and makes the shots) I don't know if there is a team who can beat OSU. I think Bufford may be a better pro prospect than Sullinger, which is saying a lot.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    That was some butt ugly basketball. Michigan St. gameplan seemed simple--physical on D, esp. on Sullinger, and then when the refs didn't call the game close early, they simply got more physical. OSU tries to play through it, but that was simply the wrong crew for that game. No basketball was played, it was simply Michigan St. bullying their way all over the court and the refs yelling at the Ohio St. bench. Ted Valentine made a mockery of the game, Mr. "Road Warrior" apparently, reminding the OSU coaches a few times to shush. Make a call and they'll shut up, or T 'em. Too bad for a 1st place game to turn into that.

    Good for them Spartans. Keep working on that 50 points a game offense and good luck in the tourney.

    And everyone sees the bias on how hard Sullinger must be hammered to actually get the call. Very frustrating, most of the time they overcome it, tonight just ugly play all around.

    One positive: ESPN can now shut up about the home winning streak. My goodness they are OCD with stuff like that.
    Last edited by traderumor; 02-11-2012 at 11:39 PM.
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  9. #143
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Dang, sounds like the refs really screwed the Buckeyes.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Michigan St. ppg: 73.8

    Ohio St. ppg: 76.9

    Just sayin.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Dang, sounds like the refs really screwed the Buckeyes.
    It wasn't in a way that a few obvious bad calls were made that usually spring "refs screwed us" comments. It was the style of play that was allowed from the first non-whistle that highly favored one team. Give MSU credit, they recognized and just started hacking away.

    All I ask for is consistency, and the Big 10 allows physical play, but last night was over the top. And Ted Valentine was in "look at me, I'm a rock and roll road warrior" mode. Not sure what his chip is with the current Bucks, but he had something up his hiney last night.
    Last edited by traderumor; 02-12-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Michigan St. ppg: 73.8

    Ohio St. ppg: 76.9

    Just sayin.
    But against tournament teams, which was my point? Michigan St. also had a 41-40 game recently at Illinois.

    I'd say you would probably get a C from your Stats professor for that usage.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    But against tournament teams, which was my point? Michigan St. also had a 41-40 game recently.
    And my point was, let's not act like OSU plays like they're coached by Paul Westphal.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    That was some butt ugly basketball. Michigan St. gameplan seemed simple--physical on D, esp. on Sullinger, and then when the refs didn't call the game close early, they simply got more physical. OSU tries to play through it, but that was simply the wrong crew for that game. No basketball was played, it was simply Michigan St. bullying their way all over the court and the refs yelling at the Ohio St. bench. Ted Valentine made a mockery of the game, Mr. "Road Warrior" apparently, reminding the OSU coaches a few times to shush. Make a call and they'll shut up, or T 'em. Too bad for a 1st place game to turn into that.

    Good for them Spartans. Keep working on that 50 points a game offense and good luck in the tourney.

    And everyone sees the bias on how hard Sullinger must be hammered to actually get the call. Very frustrating, most of the time they overcome it, tonight just ugly play all around.

    One positive: ESPN can now shut up about the home winning streak. My goodness they are OCD with stuff like that.
    Maybe going 2-15 from beyond the arc had something to do with OSU losing, or maybe it was shooting 14 of 53 from the field. Making Adrien Payne look like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did not help them either. OSU did not play good basketball yesterday and lost as a result. OSU had 13 fouls (3 or 4 were intentional fouls) and MSU had 17. OSU was in the bonus with about 9:30 left in the first half, but the refs didn't call it tight early?

    As to that sarcastic "good luck in the tourney" comment, Tom Izzo teams have always been centered around defense and rebounding, and Izzo has done just fine in the tounament. The fact that you think one of his better defensive teams with a Big Ten POTY canidate won't continue that success is beyond me.

  15. #149
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    I don' think it's fair to take anything away from MSU. The refs called the game the same way for both teams. We couldn't buy a shot, and it's been a problem all season. Anyone with lengthy post guys on defense will totally shut us down, because Sullinger just can't deal with it in the post. Yes, they played physical, but I didn't get the imperssion they crossed any lines. I think they're just better than us. Perhaps we have more talent, per se, but they're a better basketball team. The Bucks don't have anyone that can create their own shot, and with Buford's struggles they have no one who can consistently hit a jump shot. How hard is it to shut a team like that down? Especially with a team that has the quality of D MSU does.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by VottoFan54 View Post
    Maybe going 2-15 from beyond the arc had something to do with OSU losing, or maybe it was shooting 14 of 53 from the field. Making Adrien Payne look like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did not help them either. OSU did not play good basketball yesterday and lost as a result. OSU had 13 fouls (3 or 4 were intentional fouls) and MSU had 17. OSU was in the bonus with about 9:30 left in the first half, but the refs didn't call it tight early?

    As to that sarcastic "good luck in the tourney" comment, Tom Izzo teams have always been centered around defense and rebounding, and Izzo has done just fine in the tounament. The fact that you think one of his better defensive teams with a Big Ten POTY canidate won't continue that success is beyond me.
    Yes, OSU played poorly, MSU's physical defense was the cause. I am saying that their physical defense was actually fouling, from the opening tip. Sullinger was thrown out of bounds with a hip within the first few possessions as an example. It set the tone for the game, got Ohio State out of anything they are usually able to do, and was unnecessary if officiating was more consistent. How quickly Ohio State was in the bonus proves nothing.

    My take, your take.

    As for the tourney, MSU will most likely make the Sweet 16, probably not go any further. I'll go on record with that prediction, you can check it out later.

    BTW, MSU played poorly, just less poorly. Not much credit due for that. I gave them the credit they deserve.
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