2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

[Mutaman]

I can't remember the last time I saw a team homered that badly by the refs. It doesn't excuse the Buckeyes godawful shooting at all, but some of those offensive foul calls were downright embarrassing.

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard a fan blame a loss on the refs before. Kudos to you for coming up with something new.

[traderumor]

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard a fan blame a loss on the refs before. Kudos to you for coming up with something new.

Just as predictable is the denial from those who are not fans of a team that refs have anything to do with the outcome of a basketball game. Charges vs. blocks are almost always close calls. That basically all of them went against the Buckeyes is suspicious. But they played poorly and didn't deserve to win that game. That doesn't mean the beef about the charges all going UM's way doesn't have merit.

[bucksfan2]

Just as predictable is the denial from those who are not fans of a team that refs have anything to do with the outcome of a basketball game. Charges vs. blocks are almost always close calls. That basically all of them went against the Buckeyes is suspicious. But they played poorly and didn't deserve to win that game. That doesn't mean the beef about the charges all going UM's way doesn't have merit.

I didn't see much of the game. I did see the end when they were down 5 and Craft was driving to the basket and got hammered with no call.

Officiating doesn't determine the outcome of games. But it can make a huge difference in a game, especially in a close game.

[Scrap Irony]

OSU shot more free throws, had two less fouls called on it, and shot more jumpers by a wide range, yet was somehow jobbed when it came to the referees?

Please.

OSU lost because only Sullinger and Thomas showed up. Buford had a crappy shooting game, Smith was MIA, and Craft played relatively poorly all night (especially when recognizing open shooters inside).

[traderumor]

OSU shot more free throws, had two less fouls called on it, and shot more jumpers by a wide range, yet was somehow jobbed when it came to the referees?

Please.

OSU lost because only Sullinger and Thomas showed up. Buford had a crappy shooting game, Smith was MIA, and Craft played relatively poorly all night (especially when recognizing open shooters inside).

The game was a one/two possession difference throughout the second half. Apparently any mention of key calls (and close calls like charge/block) going the other team's way is saying "the refs jobbed us." I don't understand why observers who are not fans of the team in question think it is wrong to be frustrated about a few calls that didn't go their way in a close game. Why aren't those observations fair game? Yes, it could've been moot if they hit a few more jumpers, but it is still fair to note the importance of close calls.

I know Serafini "blamed" the refs, but I did not. It is a valid point, could have changed the outcome (that's five possessions, not all of those were charges), they lost by 3. Wouldn't it be great if it wasn't a valid point every freaking game? Wouldn't it be great if Sullinger didn't end the season with welts because Big 10 refs let more contact go with him than the rest of the league?

BTW, number of fouls and foul shots don't necessarily tell a story. Very shallow point.

[WVRed]

It's easy to blame the refs on the road. Ohio State did lose a game in Columbus to Michigan State as well.

You could be West Virginia and blame it on leaving the Big East being the reason the refs are screwing you over in your games.

[traderumor]

It's easy to blame the refs on the road. Ohio State did lose a game in Columbus to Michigan State as well.

You could be West Virginia and blame it on leaving the Big East being the reason the refs are screwing you over in your games.

And it was Ted Valentine's crew in Columbus and Ann Arbor, and there is already a lengthy discussion about that travesty. I don't think they're biased, they just suck. Any mention of refs is seen as "blaming refs," and sour grapes, but to me that's just picking low fruit by those who want to be dismissive in a discussion about a particular game. Everyone gets that every loss is not due to the refs, but still folks barge in and say "yea, OSU only loses when the refs screw 'em." What are there, two people out of a thousand who actually think that?

While we're on the subject, Big 10 refs have sucked for years, yet there seems to be some tenure system instead of a grading system. Tom Rucker, I used to sit in the stands under the basket as a student and man, that guy would miss call after call right in front of us. Ed Hightower? Completely awful, been that way for years, still calling games and has been for as long as I can remember. Jim Burr, now doing Big East I think, used to be Big 10, ugh, terrible the way he calls a game.

In fairness, bball is a very emotional game and I think college refs get caught up too much in making close calls that go with momentum more than they do making sure they get the call right. And it often results in the wrong call. Block or charge? Whichever motion I make first.

[Danny Serafini]

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard a fan blame a loss on the refs before. Kudos to you for coming up with something new.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen Mutaman troll a Buckeye thread before. Kudos to you for coming up with something new. Oh, wait...

[Danny Serafini]

The game was a one/two possession difference throughout the second half. Apparently any mention of key calls (and close calls like charge/block) going the other team's way is saying "the refs jobbed us." I don't understand why observers who are not fans of the team in question think it is wrong to be frustrated about a few calls that didn't go their way in a close game. Why aren't those observations fair game? Yes, it could've been moot if they hit a few more jumpers, but it is still fair to note the importance of close calls.

I know Serafini "blamed" the refs, but I did not. It is a valid point, could have changed the outcome (that's five possessions, not all of those were charges), they lost by 3. Wouldn't it be great if it wasn't a valid point every freaking game? Wouldn't it be great if Sullinger didn't end the season with welts because Big 10 refs let more contact go with him than the rest of the league?

BTW, number of fouls and foul shots don't necessarily tell a story. Very shallow point.

Thank you for summing it up in better words than I could.

[Scrap Irony]

I don't think they're biased, they just suck.

So if they only suck, they suck equally for both sides.

Therefore, the loss cannot be blamed on the refs, nec pas?

[traderumor]

So if they only suck, they suck equally for both sides.

Therefore, the loss cannot be blamed on the refs, nec pas?

Again, I didn't "blame" them. I pointed out some questionable calls that meant as much as missed shots. Lost possessions are lost possessions. Also, overall sucking doesn't mean that in any particular game the poor calls don't favor one team over the other. The Buckeyes have had so many blowouts, there isn't much to say because the game didn't come down to a few possessions.

Are you really that shallow an observer of the game or are you just against all mention of close calls in the game as a potential factor in the outcome?

[Scrap Irony]

Are you really that shallow an observer of the game or are you just against all mention of close calls in the game as a potential factor in the outcome?

If you're trying to get my goat by intimating insults, you'll have to try harder than this. The only person on my personal Ignore list is Sea Ray. And he's the king of this kind of insult.

I suppose I find ALL mention of referees "costing" OSU-- a physical, bruising, hand-checking, tough defensive team-- patently absurd. If they so chose, they could call the Buckeyes for a foul virtually every time down the court. Aaron Craft not only handchecks constantly but also pushes into his opponent with his lower body and shoulder bumps them constantly. One of his favorite tactics is to grab an opponents' off arm (usually the left) and fall backward to garner a charge call. Ironically, you see much of this, particularly against South Carolina, in a youtube video entitled Aaron Craft: Best One on One Defender. Not one foul was called on Craft, btw:

Aaron Craft Best One on One Defender in the Nation - YouTube

Add to that Sullinger, who plays aggressively and has to out-physical opponents, as he's simply not as athletic as they are, and you've got OSU's two top guns that depend on officials looking the other way or swallowing whistles as a way of allowing "flow" in CBB games. And the next time they call an over the back call on Thomas will be the first.

(They're certainly not the only ones-- Michigan State, the entire Big East, much of the SEC-- all are guilty of muddying up a game meant to be much more fluid and graceful.)

As to the particular game, Michigan was called for three charges in 17 drives to the hoop. OSU was called for one block. (Drives to the hoop are from outside of the lane to inside the lane for a short jumper, layup, or dunk. They are both driddble-drives and pass-cut drives.) OSU, OTOH, had 12 drives and were called for one charge, with four fouls called on Michigan.

Michigan was the aggressor all night. OSU settled for jumpers more often than not.

In short, it had nothing to do with the officials. It had everything to do with OSU not playing well. They lost on their own. Period.

If that makes me shallow, you may want to simply put me on the Ignore list.

[bucksfan2]

Your bringing up a South Carolina game to show how the officiating was good in the Michigan game? Seems like grasping at straws if you ask me.

[Scrap Irony]

I brought up the South Carolina game to evidence Craft's agressive and physical brand of defense.

[traderumor]

If you're trying to get my goat by intimating insults, you'll have to try harder than this. The only person on my personal Ignore list is Sea Ray. And he's the king of this kind of insult.

I suppose I find ALL mention of referees "costing" OSU-- a physical, bruising, hand-checking, tough defensive team-- patently absurd. If they so chose, they could call the Buckeyes for a foul virtually every time down the court. Aaron Craft not only handchecks constantly but also pushes into his opponent with his lower body and shoulder bumps them constantly. One of his favorite tactics is to grab an opponents' off arm (usually the left) and fall backward to garner a charge call. Ironically, you see much of this, particularly against South Carolina, in a youtube video entitled Aaron Craft: Best One on One Defender. Not one foul was called on Craft, btw:



Add to that Sullinger, who plays aggressively and has to out-physical opponents, as he's simply not as athletic as they are, and you've got OSU's two top guns that depend on officials looking the other way or swallowing whistles as a way of allowing "flow" in CBB games. And the next time they call an over the back call on Thomas will be the first.

(They're certainly not the only ones-- Michigan State, the entire Big East, much of the SEC-- all are guilty of muddying up a game meant to be much more fluid and graceful.)

As to the particular game, Michigan was called for three charges in 17 drives to the hoop. OSU was called for one block. (Drives to the hoop are from outside of the lane to inside the lane for a short jumper, layup, or dunk. They are both driddble-drives and pass-cut drives.) OSU, OTOH, had 12 drives and were called for one charge, with four fouls called on Michigan.

Michigan was the aggressor all night. OSU settled for jumpers more often than not.

In short, it had nothing to do with the officials. It had everything to do with OSU not playing well. They lost on their own. Period.

If that makes me shallow, you may want to simply put me on the Ignore list.

I'm not sure what you base this on, if its a slippery definition or what, but I'm remembering at least five offensive fouls on charge calls. I think it was the announcer that made the claim.

As for the "insult," I could only assume you are a casual observer if you want to take the position that a close game wasn't impacted by charge/block calls. As I already indicated, Ohio St. played poorly, but those lost possessions due to ALL charge/blocks that were whistled on one end of the floor going a certain way were enough to make a difference. It is shallow to simply conclude "played poorly, therefore lost." Sometimes you play poorly and pull out a win, and getting a break on just two calls could have made the difference. NOTICE, that is not saying "it was the refs," but is saying, "boy, I wish they'd call games more consistently so the refs performance is INDEED a non-factor in a game."

I'll never get fans who outright dismiss displeasure at inconsistent officiating and get upset when the inconsistency makes officiating a factor in the outcome of a game. I think its a shallow position to take. That's not insulting you personally, just the shallowness of your position.