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Thread: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

  1. #76
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    A chronic bad back couldn't effect his draft status? Sure.

    Hopefully for his sake he can get healthy and demonstrate an ability to stay that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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  3. #77
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    A chronic bad back couldn't effect his draft status? Sure.

    Hopefully for his sake he can get healthy and demonstrate an ability to stay that way.
    Perhaps you should check the definition of the word "chronic."

    Sullinger has never had back troubles in his entire life and missed two games total. His back is fine, now, and doctors have told him they don't believe it will be a problem that lingers.

    The gratuitous usage of the word "chronic" has no applicability here.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #78
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Uh huh, we will see.

    I'll be pulling for the kid to stay healthy. I like his workman-like approach to the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  5. #79
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    The Buckeyes are fortunate that the Sullinger injuries are occurring now when they are not impacting any of their team goals, which I assume are to win the Big 10 regular season, the Big 10 Tournament, and the National Championship. All of the other drama is ESPN trying to drum up interest in pre-conference games.
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  6. #80
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    The Buckeyes are fortunate that the Sullinger injuries are occurring now when they are not impacting any of their team goals, which I assume are to win the Big 10 regular season, the Big 10 Tournament, and the National Championship. All of the other drama is ESPN trying to drum up interest in pre-conference games.
    It will make the team better. OSU is getting scoring from Thomas, getting important minutes from Williams, and having Ravenel getting some more experience. A capable Williams makes Sullinger foul trouble in a big game a little easier to swallow.

    I am not stressing out at all about Sullinger. With Sullinger this team is a legit threat to win it all. And as long as he is healthy heading towards February they will be just fine.

  7. #81
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Something that is developing fast and very exciting for this team's prospects is Thomas as an offensive force. Today was exciting not because he scored 30 points, but because most of his points came from within the workings of the offense.
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  8. #82
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Perhaps you should check the definition of the word "chronic."

    Sullinger has never had back troubles in his entire life and missed two games total. His back is fine, now, and doctors have told him they don't believe it will be a problem that lingers.

    The gratuitous usage of the word "chronic" has no applicability here.
    I never said the kid has a chronic bad back. I merely stated that a player with a chronic bad back could see his draft status negatively impacted.

    "IF" he was to lose more time due to a back condition that absolutely could give NBA GMs pause when evaluating where to take him in the lottery. I'm not suggesting he's going to fall out of the lottery or into the 2nd round. He's obviously a quality player.

    He's still got the majority of the season to demonstrate that he is healthy and that these injuries were merely minor hiccups along the way.

    I for one am pulling for him to do just that.

    BTW: Matta is a helluva coach. He always speaks respectfully of his opponents and I really like the way he recruits and puts a team together.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  9. #83
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    BTW: Matta is a helluva guy/recruiter. He always speaks respectfully of his opponents and I really like the way he recruits and puts a team together.
    Fixed. His teams have been a continual disappointment since his first couple of years...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  10. #84
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Fixed. His teams have been a continual disappointment since his first couple of years...
    They haven't done well in the NCAA tournament but his teams have done well overall.When you average around 27 wins a year your teams are doing good.If you mean they have disappointed in the big dance then I'd agree.

  11. #85
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Fixed. His teams have been a continual disappointment since his first couple of years...
    Really depends what you value. If you judge solely based on the NCAA Tournament, I suppose it's debatable. He's had five Sweet 16 appearances in 11 years, twice getting to the Elite 8 and a Final Four, but his teams have underperformed their seed on three occasions at Ohio State, so that is fair play. By any other measure, though, it's not the best critique.

    As mentioned, he has still been to the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament five times with an NIT title to boot. He's won eight conference regular season titles in 11 seasons and won his conference tournament six of the 11 years he's been a coach. He's second only to John Calipari among active coaches with 5 or more seasons in winning percentage, is one of only two coaches (Mark Few being the other) to have won at least 20 games in every single season of 10 or more, and he has a 65-14 record in March (83%).

    Honestly, the only thing Matta is missing right now is the championship. Those aren't easy to get, as Calipari can attest to. Roy Williams didn't get one until his 17th season as a head coach.

    So I guess it goes back to my first point... what do you value? Are 30-win seasons, conference titles and Sweet 16 appearances sufficient? Tom Izzo is a master at Final Four runs, but interestingly he has only a few conference titles of any sort.

    Me personally... I love college basketball and cherish the entire season as a whole. I think the tournament is an awesome experience, and would like to think any team could carry its success deep into the bracket. That said, only one team that makes it to the NCAA Tournament will be able to say it won its last game. I'd prefer to take the entire year into account when judging any coach rather than focus too much on a small stretch at the end.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #86
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    I never said the kid has a chronic bad back. I merely stated that a player with a chronic bad back could see his draft status negatively impacted.

    "IF" he was to lose more time due to a back condition that absolutely could give NBA GMs pause when evaluating where to take him in the lottery. I'm not suggesting he's going to fall out of the lottery or into the 2nd round. He's obviously a quality player.

    He's still got the majority of the season to demonstrate that he is healthy and that these injuries were merely minor hiccups along the way.

    I for one am pulling for him to do just that.

    BTW: Matta is a helluva coach. He always speaks respectfully of his opponents and I really like the way he recruits and puts a team together.
    I absolutely agree that a chronic back problem would be a red flag for NBA executives. No disagreements there. But there's really no evidence of that being the case in this situation. Team doctors have already told him they have no reason to believe this will be an issue again unless it's caused by a completely new set of circumstances.

    Personally I think Sullinger will have a good but not great NBA career anyhow. He's considered a 'safe' pick in that most teams have an idea what they'll get out of him, which is why he'll go in the lottery, but I don't think he had much to gain or lose either way by staying. Most injuries don't have a huge impact on the draft anyhow. Every once in a while you'll see a situation like Da'Sean Butler, but that seems to be the exception more than the rule with modern science.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #87
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Really depends what you value. If you judge solely based on the NCAA Tournament, I suppose it's debatable. He's had five Sweet 16 appearances in 11 years, twice getting to the Elite 8 and a Final Four, but his teams have underperformed their seed on three occasions at Ohio State, so that is fair play. By any other measure, though, it's not the best critique.

    As mentioned, he has still been to the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament five times with an NIT title to boot. He's won eight conference regular season titles in 11 seasons and won his conference tournament six of the 11 years he's been a coach. He's second only to John Calipari among active coaches with 5 or more seasons in winning percentage, is one of only two coaches (Mark Few being the other) to have won at least 20 games in every single season of 10 or more, and he has a 65-14 record in March (83%).

    Honestly, the only thing Matta is missing right now is the championship. Those aren't easy to get, as Calipari can attest to. Roy Williams didn't get one until his 17th season as a head coach.

    So I guess it goes back to my first point... what do you value? Are 30-win seasons, conference titles and Sweet 16 appearances sufficient? Tom Izzo is a master at Final Four runs, but interestingly he has only a few conference titles of any sort.

    Me personally... I love college basketball and cherish the entire season as a whole. I think the tournament is an awesome experience, and would like to think any team could carry its success deep into the bracket. That said, only one team that makes it to the NCAA Tournament will be able to say it won its last game. I'd prefer to take the entire year into account when judging any coach rather than focus too much on a small stretch at the end.
    I love quantifying stuff and yada yada but... it's simple to me: at the end of almost every season I have felt disappointed while my MSU friends experience the thrill of a Final Four. I'd be more pleased to have what MSU has had than what Matta has given us. That's just how I feel...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  14. #88
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I love quantifying stuff and yada yada but... it's simple to me: at the end of almost every season I have felt disappointed while my MSU friends experience the thrill of a Final Four. I'd be more pleased to have what MSU has had than what Matta has given us. That's just how I feel...
    OSU and MSU are trending opposite directions. Izzo's teams have been getting thinner and thinner in talent, this one being the least talented MSU team I can remember during his tenure. I'd say Izzo is a tiring elder statesman (fading star) while Matta is still at the top of his game (star in his prime).
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  15. #89
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    OSU and MSU are trending opposite directions. Izzo's teams have been getting thinner and thinner in talent, this one being the least talented MSU team I can remember during his tenure. I'd say Izzo is a tiring elder statesman (fading star) while Matta is still at the top of his game (star in his prime).
    Izzo is only 56. And it's hard for me to think of a guy that coached teams to 2 straight Final 4 appearances just 2 years ago as a "fading star."

    Last year was tough for them with Lucious' conduct issues and various injuries (Delvon Roe specifically). And they played a brutal nonconference schedule, as they do every year.

    His last 2 recruiting classes have been solid and this year's team looks pretty good despite their lack of experience. Their only losses have been to UNC (12 points) and Duke (5 points). They've dusted the "lesser" teams on their schedule and went on the road to beat Gonzaga.

    Also, for comparison to Matta... For Matta to reach "Izzo status," over the next 12 years (Matta is 44) he'll have to win a national championship, reach 5 more Sweet 16s, 5 more Elite 8s, and 5 more Final 4s. It could happen, but that would be a pretty exceptional run.

    I like Matta, but Izzo has set a pretty high standard.
    Last edited by dabvu2498; 12-18-2011 at 03:14 PM.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Nice way to start conference play. Wasn't able to watch any of it but the good guys beat NW 87-54. Looks like Buford and Sullinger led the way.


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