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Thread: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

  1. #121
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I think it's easy to draw that conclusion from the last week especially. But when Indiana's playing well, the three point shot is a much smaller percentage of the overall game.

    What Indiana hasn't done a great job of is establishing any half court offense. IU usually does a good job of creating points from defense and transitioning to offense, but that hasn't been the case going all the way back to the Michigan game.
    Perhaps that is due to the adjustments that I spoke of in the IU thread. Defenses in the league scout, see what they're doing, take it away. IU will have to adjust to that, if they can, meaning if personnel allows them to counter what opponents have devised to take away IU's strengths. That is a talent question.

    As for yesterday's game, Ohio State is going to be tough for anyone at home or on a neutral floor. The road is their kryptonite for now. Hopefully they figure that out.
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  3. #122
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Perhaps that is due to the adjustments that I spoke of in the IU thread. Defenses in the league scout, see what they're doing, take it away. IU will have to adjust to that, if they can, meaning if personnel allows them to counter what opponents have devised to take away IU's strengths. That is a talent question.

    As for yesterday's game, Ohio State is going to be tough for anyone at home or on a neutral floor. The road is their kryptonite for now. Hopefully they figure that out.
    That's true. Dan Dakich said that the B1G Ten scouts better than any other league, don't know if that's true, but it certainly explains the discrepancy some teams have once conference play starts. What really concerns me is that IU hasn't been able to stop anybody.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Bump to the Bucks for a hard-earned win over TSUN.

    This team can play D. They gave up a few open 3s, but man, they played some long possessions and Michigan still didn't get good shots.

    I am still puzzled as to why Michigan came out in man to man D for the second half after playing to an ugly draw with a 2-3 zone in the first half. Seems like an adjustment for the sake of adjusting.

    As for Lenzelle Smith, Jr., he makes another team pay with a big day when the opponent game planned to stop Sullinger at all costs. This is eventually going to be scrapped as a strategy as Smith proves that he can rise to the challenge, and Sully will benefit from Ds being more reluctant to double and triple down and leaving Smith. Of course, this was a little bit different than the IU game, where a lot of his points were put backs in this one.

    Finally, cudos to the bench for getting a little run and energy right before half, especially Shannon Scott.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Bump to the Bucks for a hard-earned win over TSUN.

    This team can play D. They gave up a few open 3s, but man, they played some long possessions and Michigan still didn't get good shots.

    I am still puzzled as to why Michigan came out in man to man D for the second half after playing to an ugly draw with a 2-3 zone in the first half. Seems like an adjustment for the sake of adjusting.

    As for Lenzelle Smith, Jr., he makes another team pay with a big day when the opponent game planned to stop Sullinger at all costs. This is eventually going to be scrapped as a strategy as Smith proves that he can rise to the challenge, and Sully will benefit from Ds being more reluctant to double and triple down and leaving Smith. Of course, this was a little bit different than the IU game, where a lot of his points were put backs in this one.

    Finally, cudos to the bench for getting a little run and energy right before half, especially Shannon Scott.
    Watching UM play basketball is difficult. They take the air out of the ball and really play a boring style of basketball. They are not a team you want to play in the tournament because they get a lead on you and you may never get a chance to come back.

    I remember watching the Illinois debacle and thinking to myself, Smith Jr isn't cutting it. He was the 5th man on the court who really didn't do much. He was getting eaten alive by Paul and wasn't contributing anything to the offensive end. But then there was IU and Smith went off and seems like his confidence has been high ever since. If they can get him playing like he did yesterday they can win it all.

    Kudos to Thad for getting more guys into the lineup during contested minutes. I am actually a little disappointed that Amir Williams isn't getting more PT. He was playing ok against Kansas when Sullinger was out but hasn't seen any important minutes since.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Watching UM play basketball is difficult. They take the air out of the ball and really play a boring style of basketball. They are not a team you want to play in the tournament because they get a lead on you and you may never get a chance to come back.

    I remember watching the Illinois debacle and thinking to myself, Smith Jr isn't cutting it. He was the 5th man on the court who really didn't do much. He was getting eaten alive by Paul and wasn't contributing anything to the offensive end. But then there was IU and Smith went off and seems like his confidence has been high ever since. If they can get him playing like he did yesterday they can win it all.

    Kudos to Thad for getting more guys into the lineup during contested minutes. I am actually a little disappointed that Amir Williams isn't getting more PT. He was playing ok against Kansas when Sullinger was out but hasn't seen any important minutes since.
    I had not had the opportunity to watch them other than a minute or two here and there, but I'd have to agree. Zone D, Northwestern style offense. It seems like it is stifling talents like Burke and Hardaway while featuring an average/below average center to get a few easy baskets on cuts.

    It is pretty to watch the execution on those things, but would seem better to be a part of the offense to be used within a scheme that better fits talented guard play. Of course, not having seen them play alot, that is just a one game observation. The Ohio State D may have had something to do with limiting the damage of the guards from their normal game.

    I don't get the Williams behind Ravenal, either. Ravenal is wasted space out there, seems to think he can shoot, and can't catch the basketball.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I had not had the opportunity to watch them other than a minute or two here and there, but I'd have to agree. Zone D, Northwestern style offense. It seems like it is stifling talents like Burke and Hardaway while featuring an average/below average center to get a few easy baskets on cuts.

    It is pretty to watch the execution on those things, but would seem better to be a part of the offense to be used within a scheme that better fits talented guard play. Of course, not having seen them play alot, that is just a one game observation. The Ohio State D may have had something to do with limiting the damage of the guards from their normal game.

    I don't get the Williams behind Ravenal, either. Ravenal is wasted space out there, seems to think he can shoot, and can't catch the basketball.
    I actually thought UM's method was working in the first half against OSU. The 2-3 or 3-2 or 2-1-2 zone was preventing Sullinger from getting off. It almost looked like Syracuse's zone and was really preventing any kind of offensive flow. Why in the world they switched to man, 1-3-1, and then a 3/4 court press is beyond me. Because of Craft and Bufford they are extremely difficult to press and throw exotic traps at them. Anytime you extend the court against OSU is a bad thing. Craft is very good at beating a press, Bufford is very good off the bounce, Thomas is good when he can find his spots in trasition, and Sullinger is a beast who knows how to get to the blocks.

    I actually think the best way to beat OSU is to play a tight zone, or man, double Sullinger when he touches it, and make Craft and Smith Jr. beat you. Your playing with fire but its better than letting Sully, Bufford, or Thomas to go off.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    There were enough bricks layed to keep the wolf out today. Man, ugly shooting for both squads. Regardless, a long overdue win over Wisconsin at their place, even if it is one of their lesser talented squads. I just waited for a run at the end from the Badgers to steal it away, but they held it off.

    Play of the game was Sullinger's steal protecting a one point lead. Buford drains a three, and its ballgame.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    There were enough bricks layed to keep the wolf out today. Man, ugly shooting for both squads. Regardless, a long overdue win over Wisconsin at their place, even if it is one of their lesser talented squads. I just waited for a run at the end from the Badgers to steal it away, but they held it off.

    Play of the game was Sullinger's steal protecting a one point lead. Buford drains a three, and its ballgame.
    It was an ugly game but in order to beat Wisconsin in Madison you need to win ugly games. They may be a lesser Wisconsin team but I still think they are a good team. I think Jordan Taylor may be the best PG in college basketball. Fortunately they held him in check and didn't let him go off.

    That game was the first time since the Duke game that I thought they had a legit chance to win it all. They beat a good team on the road but also found a way to win a game. The only two players who I thought played well were Sullinger and Thomas. You need to be able to win games like those in order to win it all.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Good stuff from The Dispatch today
    http://www.buckeyextra.com/content/s...jnfuclt-1.html

    The Sully watch
    Ryan said he did not double-team on Sullinger because he was wary of Ohio State’s ability to make three-point shots. “Some of those teams that doubled him paid big time,” he said. Sullinger was grateful. “I don’t think I’ve seen single coverage since the first game of the season my freshman year,” he said. “When I (saw) that, I kind of got excited and decided to go to work.” Sullinger made 6 of 8 shots in the first half. In the second, “they decided to front the post,” he said, “and they had a lot of back-side help, so it was very tough for our guards to deliver the pass.” Thomas was the beneficiary and took advantage with two second-chance putbacks on the back side. He made 4 of 6 shots after halftime. “If you want to double me, or rotate a guy to box me out, Deshaun is always going to be the free one,” Sullinger said, “and he’s a ball-attractor. He always attracts the ball.”
    Having watched teams try to game plan the Bucks, it seems like it might be less deadly poison to play Sullinger honest. Sure, he'll get 20-30, but you can slow down the game, defend the outside shooter better, and stay within one good late run to beat them. The all-in double teaming has proven to be the least effective D against the Bucks, yet that is the one that everyone tries.

    Of course, Wisconsin can play D better than most teams, so it may be personnel that allowed them to execute the gameplan and hang in the game.
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    It was an ugly game but in order to beat Wisconsin in Madison you need to win ugly games. They may be a lesser Wisconsin team but I still think they are a good team. I think Jordan Taylor may be the best PG in college basketball. Fortunately they held him in check and didn't let him go off.

    That game was the first time since the Duke game that I thought they had a legit chance to win it all. They beat a good team on the road but also found a way to win a game. The only two players who I thought played well were Sullinger and Thomas. You need to be able to win games like those in order to win it all.
    I haven't watched enough non-OSU college basketball this year to have a real good idea if OSU can win the whole thing. I liked how they won the Wisconsin game though because it shows the team is growing. That game played out very simliar to the Illinois and Indiana games except this time they won. I do feel that while this team is incredibly talented and has a lot of weapons, there is something missing. A killer instinct that some teams have that I haven't seen with this team.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    The Buckeyes were lucky to get out of Wisconsin with a win imo.They couldn't make anything but Wisconsin was worse and missed a ton of good looks.That being said, in two of OSU losses(IU and Ill.) the teams they were playing got very hot and were lucky to beat the Bucks.What goes around comes around.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    I haven't watched enough non-OSU college basketball this year to have a real good idea if OSU can win the whole thing. I liked how they won the Wisconsin game though because it shows the team is growing. That game played out very simliar to the Illinois and Indiana games except this time they won. I do feel that while this team is incredibly talented and has a lot of weapons, there is something missing. A killer instinct that some teams have that I haven't seen with this team.
    OSU has only lost on the road in hostile environments. If you take out the Kansas game which was played without Sullinger its a loss to IU on the road and a historic effort from Paul. What I see is fluke type games lost on the road are minimized becasue once you hit tournament time those away games all become neutral games.

    I don't know about killer instinct but they pretty much disected good teams like Duke, Florida, and IU. They played their style of basketball and the game was pretty much out of hand in the 2nd half.

    Now as long as their own AD doesn't screw them over again in the tournament........

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    OSU has only lost on the road in hostile environments. If you take out the Kansas game which was played without Sullinger its a loss to IU on the road and a historic effort from Paul. What I see is fluke type games lost on the road are minimized becasue once you hit tournament time those away games all become neutral games.

    I don't know about killer instinct but they pretty much disected good teams like Duke, Florida, and IU. They played their style of basketball and the game was pretty much out of hand in the 2nd half.

    Now as long as their own AD doesn't screw them over again in the tournament........
    Yea, they've had some big blowout wins on the road against Iowa and Nebraska also, teams that have had some home success this year. Those may be below average teams, but 30 point wins on the road plus some of the home blowouts that were clear overmatches, I'm not seeing any "lack of killer instict."
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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yea, they've had some big blowout wins on the road against Iowa and Nebraska also, teams that have had some home success this year. Those may be below average teams, but 30 point wins on the road plus some of the home blowouts that were clear overmatches, I'm not seeing any "lack of killer instict."
    They are very talented and that's why they are mostly blowing out teams. Maybe killer instinct isn't the right term. Maybe it's a lack or direction. I think what I'm seeing is common when the primary scoring threat is a big man. My point is I don't trust this team in a close game. They have a lot of big games left and plenty of opportunities to continue getting better.

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    Re: 2011-2012 Buckeyes Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    I haven't watched enough non-OSU college basketball this year to have a real good idea if OSU can win the whole thing. I liked how they won the Wisconsin game though because it shows the team is growing. That game played out very simliar to the Illinois and Indiana games except this time they won. I do feel that while this team is incredibly talented and has a lot of weapons, there is something missing. A killer instinct that some teams have that I haven't seen with this team.
    I'd be careful to ascribe too much of that to growth. In essence in the IU and ILL games they played it close and lost, in this one they played it close and won. More than anything it shows if you take a game down to the wire, the talent differential goes out the window and the game becomes a coin flip. It's why less talented teams always try to bunker down and make the game as short as possible. If you ask the Buckeyes before a game with Northwestern if they'd rather have a coin flip(win expectation 50%) then play the game they'd of course turn it down. If you asked Northwestern, they'd of course say yes.

    So I don't know if they've grown so much as the coin flipped to tails in the first two games and to heads on Saturday.
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