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Thread: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

  1. #16
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    The other positive thing, if you are a Reds fan, is that you won't have to see the mind games that TLR put everyone through. Matheny was a well respected person and one of the good guys in the game when he played. I get a sense that the Cards wanted to get away from the uber-micromanaging/psychological mind games management they had for 16 years and move towards a guy that can not only manage on the field but give good PR as well.
    What mind games? TLR outsmarted himself most of the time.

    One of the luckier managers of my lifetime. I really can't remember him ever managing a team that wasn't stacked with talent. He had good teams and IMHO, often times undermined them.

    Overrated is my opinion of TLR. Obviously I'll be in the minority.

    His teams were stacked with talent.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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  3. #17
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    What mind games? TLR outsmarted himself most of the time.

    One of the luckier managers of my lifetime. I really can't remember him ever managing a team that wasn't stacked with talent. He had good teams and IMHO, often times undermined them.

    Overrated is my opinion of TLR. Obviously I'll be in the minority.

    His teams were stacked with talent.
    That's a very overlooked point.

    I seriously doubt LaRussa would have ever agreed to manage the Cubs, or the Rays like Sweet Lou did, or the Cubs and Reds like Dusty did, or the Marlins, Rockies, and Tigers like Leyland did.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. #18
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That's a very overlooked point.

    I seriously doubt LaRussa would have ever agreed to manage the Cubs, or the Rays like Sweet Lou did, or the Cubs and Reds like Dusty did, or the Marlins, Rockies, and Tigers like Leyland did.
    Well...LaRussa's first year in St. Louis was 1996. He took over a team that finished 62-81 in 1995 managed by Joe Torre.

  5. #19
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Kal, I can certainly understand why TLR annoyed so many people. However, he was one of those guys that you hate but love to have on your team. I liked the fact that TLR tried to give the Cards an edge on every single opportunity that came his way. I appreciated that if he felt there was a just a chance his team would perform just 1% better because of the antics he pulled, he didn't mind taking heat for it.
    I don't have anything against LaRussa...he did bring two World Championships to St. Louis. However, I was thrilled when he retired and was hoping he would. I think it's time for St. Louis to have a fresh direction. Matheny is hte perfect guy to do that. He doesn't have any experience, but MAtheny is well respected and is looked at as a great leader.

  6. #20
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life View Post
    Well...LaRussa's first year in St. Louis was 1996. He took over a team that finished 62-81 in 1995 managed by Joe Torre.
    Cardinals are the second most successful and popular organization in all of baseball, that had just gotten new ownership that was ready to spend money.

    I believe even TRL himself, when asked about breaking Bobby Cox's win record, humbly replied that he was very lucky to have been in two very good situations.

    I'm not sure it's even a knock in him that wants to be in good situtions, it says he knows one when he sees one, and that he likes to win.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #21
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    I have a feeling that the Cardinals will shift gears a little and focus more on defense net year. Matheny understands the importance of good defence.

  8. #22
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Cardinals are the second most successful and popular organization in all of baseball, that had just gotten new ownership that was ready to spend money.

    I believe even TRL himself, when asked about breaking Bobby Cox's win record, humbly replied that he was very lucky to have been in two very good situations.

    I'm not sure it's even a knock in him that wants to be in good situtions, it says he knows one when he sees one, and that he likes to win.
    Well, atleast he was smart enough to go to good situations. Can't fault him for that.

    There are certain coaches and managers that seem to fall into good situations from time to time. Another guy I can't stand in the NFL is Brian Billick. Has a huge ego, but fell into one of the most talented Ravens teams ever, and won the Super Bowl. Never thought much and still don't think much of him as a head coach. I watched an interview of him one time where he proclaimed himself an offensive guru. Seriously.

    I thought Ron Washington did about as lousy a job of managing a world series team as I've seen in a long while. Texas was stacked. But he managed them poorly when it counted.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  9. #23
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Matheny grew up in Reynoldsburg, Ohio. That might make him at least not hate the areds.
    /r/reds

  10. #24
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Robin Ventura and Matheny both never coached or managed a game in their lives.

    Be prepared for the second guessing

  11. #25
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Holy crap. I played against this guy in high school.

    I feel old.

  12. #26
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life View Post
    I have a feeling that the Cardinals will shift gears a little and focus more on winning less next year.
    There. Fixed it for you.
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    The other positive thing, if you are a Reds fan, is that you won't have to see the mind games that TLR put everyone through. Matheny was a well respected person and one of the good guys in the game when he played. I get a sense that the Cards wanted to get away from the uber-micromanaging/psychological mind games management they had for 16 years and move towards a guy that can not only manage on the field but give good PR as well.
    I think it's a double edged sword in bringing in a complete rookie manager.

    On one hand, it's not brain surgery, and with a veteran team, it's not like he should need to crack the whip. A lot of players will probably be more relaxed with a guy like Matheney than they were when Larussa managed.

    On the other hand, with Larussa, at least the Cards players knew they would be in it to win it. If they are able to perhaps take advantage of the relaxed atmosphere AND if Matheney perhaps goofs up something that Tony never would have overlooked, it might be hard for the players to truly respect him.

    One thing I always respected about Larussa is that he micro managed, but his players were usually pretty smart themselves. Sometimes with a micro manager, the players aren't as active in trying to take advantage of a weakness they see, but rather let the manager do everything for them. The baserunning trick the Cardinals often employ of having a guy round third far enough to draw a throw, but still get back and allowing a guy on first to coast into second is an example of this.
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  14. #28
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    I wonder if Matheny will tell Carpenter to stop the whining.

  15. #29
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    I wonder if Matheny will tell Carpenter to stop the whining.
    He will, but Carpenter will whine about it.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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  16. #30
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Matheny is new Cardinals manager

    What mind games? TLR outsmarted himself most of the time.

    One of the luckier managers of my lifetime. I really can't remember him ever managing a team that wasn't stacked with talent. He had good teams and IMHO, often times undermined them.

    Overrated is my opinion of TLR. Obviously I'll be in the minority.

    His teams were stacked with talent.
    I think this point is a bit overplayed. What team isn't successful with talent? I can't think of many instances where a manager has won a World Series with the equivalent of the AAA Memphis Redbirds as his team. Do you take points away from Sparky Anderson because he managed a Reds team that literally had half of their team full of Hall of Fame players? Are you going to take away points from Bobby Cox for having a pitching staff that was arguably one of the most dominant pitching staffs in the history of baseball for a decade or so?

    Furthermore, I think you do underestimate TLR's ability to manage and his leadership. Yeah, he won with great teams but he also won with teams that really had no business being there in the first place. In 2002, his best year of management, they had to use 14 different starting pitcher and their Ace died, yet the team made the playoffs and was close to going to the World Series that year. Can you say that in 2006 that team had any business winning? I'm not even going to go into this historic year. Are you saying that TLR had nothing to do with those teams or the drive he instills on those teams? A lot of times players and managers in sports create their own luck. You may not like TLR but I think you do him a disservice to essentially say he was lucky in his 33 years of managing. Speaking of which, 33 years of managing at a high level is a feat onto itself.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 11-14-2011 at 03:10 PM.
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