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Thread: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

  1. #541
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I think Bengals fans are smart enough to know that the schedule plays a huge part in the Bengals' recent success.

    They've been bounced in the first round every time, and there isn't a soul alive who thinks they will do otherwise this year.

    They lost to a Texans team at home who had their third string QB in.

    Not ready for primetime, and they never will be until they get a football person and not an attorney and his relatives making player decisions.
    Irrelevant. They also beat three teams that the Ravens lost to. And they beat a team that the Patriots lost to. And they beat a team that the Giants and Bears lost to. And they beat a team that the Saints lost to. And they beat a team that the Texans lost to. Funny how you didn't cherry pick those results?

    Are the Bengals the only team in the NFL that has the easy schedule in the rotation? No. They all do. The Bengals took advantage of it this year. So did the Steelers, playing the exact same schedule and beating, largely, the exact same teams. In 2010, the Reds took advantage of a sad-sack division by beating up on the bottom dwellers all season. Should they apologize?

    The declinist, defeatist attitude ... soooooooooo Cincinnati.
    Last edited by Reds/Flyers Fan; 12-29-2011 at 12:31 AM.

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  3. #542
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    Doyel's article it is right on the money.

    You're welcome in LA Bengals. But leave Mike Brown, Katie and her lame husband in Cincinnati.

    Rem
    Go out and get your Raiders back if you want a team. Leave the Bengals and Bills and Vikings alone. Your city already lost two teams. Do we really need to see history repeat itself?

  4. #543
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    IMO comparing the recent histories of the Bengals and Reds is ridiculous. The NFL and MLB are set up very differently as far as creating a more even playing field between the have's and have not's. Comparing their records is like comparing a college student's report card to a first grader's as a means of comparing their intelligence.
    2013 Record at games attended: 0-1

  5. #544
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan View Post
    So did the Steelers, playing the exact same schedule and beating, largely, the exact same teams.
    Please tell us how the two matchups between the Steelers and the Bengals ended this year. Kind of an important fact that you failed to mention.

    You definitely do not fault the team for their schedule; however, it is OK to tell how it is... the Bengals are really only a mediocre team that benefited from playing two weak "other" divisions this year and a pretty bad Cleveland team 2X. They will have a much better record than anyone predicted as the season started (I predicted 2-14... oops!) and I really enjoyed this season as a diehard fan. But in reality they are not a playoff type team. They are reaping the benefits of their schedule and overall a pretty mediocre NFL (with a few exceptions).
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  6. #545
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Please tell us how the two matchups between the Steelers and the Bengals ended this year. Kind of an important fact that you failed to mention.

    You definitely do not fault the team for their schedule; however, it is OK to tell how it is... the Bengals are really only a mediocre team that benefited from playing two weak "other" divisions this year and a pretty bad Cleveland team 2X. They will have a much better record than anyone predicted as the season started (I predicted 2-14... oops!) and I really enjoyed this season as a diehard fan. But in reality they are not a playoff type team. They are reaping the benefits of their schedule and overall a pretty mediocre NFL (with a few exceptions).
    I think the point he made was a counter to the Bengals aren't any good, they haven't beaten anyone. Well if the Bengals aren't any good, then 2 of the three best wins for Pittsburgh are diminished. So why would we believe Pittsburgh is any good. And Baltimore's basically just made their living on the AFC North which we've now established consists of the mediocre Steelers and the sub mediocre Bengals.

    Further, no one was claiming the Bengals are severely underrated and they should be thought of as Super Bowl favorites. They are what they are, somewhere between the 4th and 8th best team in the AFC. If that's really not that good so be it.
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  7. #546
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    At the end of the day we have an attorney making football personnel decisions, which is not a sustainable model for success. They've proven this for two decades now, regardless if somebody would be thankful to have them somewhere else.
    As I and others have pointed out, by saying that they've proven anything over two decades is to largely ignore the massive improvement you've seen from the franchise in the past 9 seasons. The fact that it was a massive improvement to mediocre shouldn't obscure the fact that the way things are run now is so much better than it was before.

    I'll give an analogy that I like because it lets me bring up my mighty Hoosiers. I think Tom Crean is a decent coach. However in large part because of the situation he inherited, his B1G Ten Record from the first 3 seasons is a woeful 8-46. 38 games below .500. Now even if the Hoosiers are successful over the next 10 years, his overall B1G Ten record is always going to look pretty mediocre. If IU went 12-6 every year for the next 5 years, he'd still be 68-76.
    If you were to say, "He's been given 9 years and he's still less than mediocre. Look at his B1G Ten record, he's not even .500" it would be silly.

    Though the reasons for the failure are much much different, I think the failure of the franchise in the 90's similarly obscures any meaningful improvements made by Mike Brown.

    So if we're going to accurately discuss whether Brown's model works, at least we should acknowledge that the model is different now than it was in 1996.
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 12-29-2011 at 09:37 AM.
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  8. #547
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I think Bengals fans are smart enough to know that the schedule plays a huge part in the Bengals' recent success.

    They've been bounced in the first round every time, and there isn't a soul alive who thinks they will do otherwise this year.

    They lost to a Texans team at home who had their third string QB in.

    Not ready for primetime, and they never will be until they get a football person and not an attorney and his relatives making player decisions.
    So lets say we find a way to win on Sunday, you really think that playing @ Houston is an unwinnable game?

    And let's be real here, there are a handful of consistently good teams in the NFL. Those teams make the playoffs year in and year out, then get a winners schedule the following season, and are still able to win enough games to make the playoffs again. The reason there is so much turnaround in the NFL is because of that scheduling, let's not pretend that it has only benefited the Bengals or anything. On top of that we play in one of the toughest divisions in all of football, and we're one of two teams to have swept that division in a year (3 if Baltimore wins on Sunday).

    Fans can try to spin it however they want in an attempt to downplay success and convince themselves that this team still sucks, but like others have pointed out in this thread, we haven't been that bad of a team in recent years. It's up to you if you choose to ignore that fact or not.

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    I'm not trying to derail this discussion, but I cannot wait for this game Sunday afternoon. I am pumped.
    Let's get weird!

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    The Reds have been worse than the Bengals since Marvin Lewis came to town. This is something people seem to enjoy ignoring, I've never been able to figure it out, but it's why the Reds attendance is so bad. Save for two years ('99 and '10) they've been terrible since the mid-90s. That's a lot of suffering for the fan base.
    I don't disagree with out about the Reds. I would think that a NL Central championship team with the National League MVP would get more fans down to GABP than it did though.

    My point was more that when a city doesn't support any of their teams like Cincinnati, the excuses don't mean a whole lot. At some point we need to own up to the fact that this city just isn't a good sports town.

    If you wanted a winner the Cincinnati Bearcat football team has been extremely successful for the past 4 years. If you wanted a young and exciting team who has won recently the Reds were your team. If you wanted a young team filled with no-names that was exceeding expectations left and right the Bengals were for you. And Cincinnati basketball used to be one of the biggest attractions in this city, but as it turns out people were buying tickets to watch Bob Huggins work the sidelines.

  11. #550
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    What is our excuse for not supporting the Bearcats? or the Reds lower than average attendance? Oh right, because we ran Bob Huggins out of town and the Reds play on school nights.

    I'm sure there are people not going because of Mike Brown, but I don't buy that as the main reason. I think it's just another excuse made by Cincinnati fans.

    I think the real reasons are HDTVs and a city whose fans are either jaded, living in the past, or a little bit of both.


    They sell out for 8 years in a row and then the organization runs off it's 100 million dollar QB after numerous other issues the Bengals fans have put up with over the years and the sellouts plummet to 2/3 of the stadium and you don't see the correlation? I know Mike Brown is the reason for it, just ask the fans they have no reason to make excuses. Being jaded about the past is simply the lead in. Their perception may or may not be right on the money (I tend to disagree with it about him to an extent) but there is no doubt about the why.

    The reason they don't support those other teams is because they believe they stink or in the Reds case in '10 they have been fooled before by other Reds teams. The Reds are gonna need to prove they are in it to win it to get solid support because let's face it Cincy is actually a football town.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 12-29-2011 at 10:05 AM.
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    At the end of the day we have an attorney making football personnel decisions, which is not a sustainable model for success. They've proven this for two decades now, regardless if somebody would be thankful to have them somewhere else.

    That's like saying you should eat grub worms for dinner tonight because there are people somewhere else who would think they hit the jackpot with a dinner like that.
    I disagree with you. 1st of all Jerry Jones isn't the football guru he thinks he is but he is the only owner to ever take over a team and win within his 1st decade as owner in the modern era. Just look at the Redskins and they spend money like they are printing it. So I say you have to throw the '90's out as they were learning years, if you are gonna be fair. Then his 2nd decade he has put together some solid teams but still had an important lesson or 2 to learn yet (baggage is a bad thing) and now in his 3rd decade he seems to be moving in the right direction and I predict a higher level of play. The Steelers sucked for about 6 decades before they finally got it together.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  13. #552
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by izzy's dad View Post
    I'm not trying to derail this discussion, but I cannot wait for this game Sunday afternoon. I am pumped.
    Same here, I am thinking of laying down some dollars on it. I'm guaranteeing victory over the hapless 1st place Ravens. They may be the better team against the NFL as a whole but the Bengals are a bad matchup for them. Torrey Inconsistent Smith and a late lucky sack won't be able to save them this time. 24-13 Bengals, Who-Dey! I may even put some dollars down on them in the playoffs, I think they have what it takes. If it wasn't for Andre Johnson getting healthy and my strong appreciation for an underrated T.J. Yates I would without a doubt make a play for the Bengals to make it the Super Bowl. Not that I am super high on this team but the matchups aren't as bad as they seem, the "good" teams in the AFC this year all are beatable. The Texans with a healthy Andre still are the 3rd best team in football IMO.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 12-29-2011 at 10:24 AM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  14. #553
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    While I have no love for Mike Brown, I find it hard not to root for this team. Dalton and Green make me want to get behind them.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  15. #554
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by izzy's dad View Post
    I'm not trying to derail this discussion, but I cannot wait for this game Sunday afternoon. I am pumped.
    I am excited too, but nervous. This is a game that could define what type of team the Bengals will be the next few years. If they can get it done against the Ravens the youngsters on the team will gain even more confidence and it should set the tone for future expectations.

    If they lose, however, and don't get in to the playoffs or fail to win if they do, there is a danger that the typical Bengal self defeating attitude prevails.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post


    They sell out for 8 years in a row and then the organization runs off it's 100 million dollar QB after numerous other issues the Bengals fans have put up with over the years and the sellouts plummet to 2/3 of the stadium and you don't see the correlation? I know Mike Brown is the reason for it, just ask the fans they have no reason to make excuses. Being jaded about the past is simply the lead in. Their perception may or may not be right on the money (I tend to disagree with it about him to an extent) but there is no doubt about the why.

    The reason they don't support those other teams is because they believe they stink or in the Reds case in '10 they have been fooled before by other Reds teams. The Reds are gonna need to prove they are in it to win it to get solid support because let's face it Cincy is actually a football town.
    Towards the end of those 8 years they were often aided by local businesses or even Chad Johnson to buy off remaining tickets to prevent blackouts. The streak also ended last season which was a bad year, but it also followed an undefeated AFC North season that led to a playoff berth.

    I'm not trying to say our fans have always been bad or anything, just that it's trended that way in recent years.

    Also, I don't think it's fair to say the organization ran Carson out of town. They paid him very well and he decided to take his ball and go home, that's on him.

    With all of that said, I do agree that this stuff can't change overnight. The real question is how season ticket sales will go in the offseason. This is an easy team to root for, MB has been doing a good job drafting and signing FAs recently, and we're setup for a successful run. For fans, I would think that is what they would want.


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