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Thread: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

  1. #16
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Within the next year?

    That doesn't imply any urgency. It's practically a throwaway statement. To me, it implies a half-hearted effort to sign, followed by a shrug as they let him walk. To Votto, this milquetoast statement might just be worse than saying nothing.
    What urgency is necessarily there? None really. Votto is signed for the next two seasons, at which point he is eligible for free agency. The only clear statement he has made is that when he signed this contract, he was not ready to tie himself down for the long term; noting he had no idea what he would want to be doing in three years. I'm being hyperbolic here, but there's practically been panic in the streets here on RZ ever since viz Votto's future.

    Certainly it's easy to take Jocketty's statement as a throwaway line. But noting that he will not be trading Votto is a clear statement. As for a timetable, why is "within the next year" wrong? Votto seems to be in no rush; the Reds are certainly not pressed to do so. Some players have suggested in their careers that not addressing it is an insult, shows bad faith, etc. Votto, at times, is fairly inscrutable.

    Others have suggested that Votto won't give a "home town discount," but what exactly does that mean in real world terms? It's not unheard of (albeit rare) that a player decides that an offer is more than enough for himself, particularly for a given contract period. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Kemp's suggested contract is a possible barometer for Votto. Given what little window we're given into Votto's thinking, it wouldn't shock me to see him decide this is where he wants to be at that $140M or $150M is more than enough for him to make.

    (An aside, I'm all for players making what they can - they are the whole show afterall - but it's still mindblowing to write such numbers. Crazy world we live in)

    I think Jocketty's being square with folks. He makes clear that unsettling talk about trading the team's star is off the table. He mentions a timetable that's more than adequate for showing "good faith" and "respect" and it's not unbelievable that we may well succeed at an extension. And it's also possible it will all be for naught. But there's absolutely no rush. If come next off-season, Votto is resolute in not signing long term, then he can be dealt. Many here have said the same all along.
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  3. #17
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    What urgency is necessarily there? None really. Votto is signed for the next two seasons, at which point he is eligible for free agency. The only clear statement he has made is that when he signed this contract, he was not ready to tie himself down for the long term; noting he had no idea what he would want to be doing in three years. I'm being hyperbolic here, but there's practically been panic in the streets here on RZ ever since viz Votto's future.

    Certainly it's easy to take Jocketty's statement as a throwaway line. But noting that he will not be trading Votto is a clear statement. As for a timetable, why is "within the next year" wrong? Votto seems to be in no rush; the Reds are certainly not pressed to do so. Some players have suggested in their careers that not addressing it is an insult, shows bad faith, etc. Votto, at times, is fairly inscrutable.

    Others have suggested that Votto won't give a "home town discount," but what exactly does that mean in real world terms? It's not unheard of (albeit rare) that a player decides that an offer is more than enough for himself, particularly for a given contract period. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Kemp's suggested contract is a possible barometer for Votto. Given what little window we're given into Votto's thinking, it wouldn't shock me to see him decide this is where he wants to be at that $140M or $150M is more than enough for him to make.

    (An aside, I'm all for players making what they can - they are the whole show afterall - but it's still mindblowing to write such numbers. Crazy world we live in)

    I think Jocketty's being square with folks. He makes clear that unsettling talk about trading the team's star is off the table. He mentions a timetable that's more than adequate for showing "good faith" and "respect" and it's not unbelievable that we may well succeed at an extension. And it's also possible it will all be for naught. But there's absolutely no rush. If come next off-season, Votto is resolute in not signing long term, then he can be dealt. Many here have said the same all along.
    But if Joey is hell bent on testing the free agent market time does matter.

    the closer Votto gets to becoming a free agent the less trade value he has.

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    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    Do you think Votto will give the Reds a home discount
    I doubt it. Even if he does it probably won't be much. Votto is gonna cost alot in a couple years no matter where he is.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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    Member wlf WV's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    I believe Castellini is loyal and protective of his people.I can see him making it worthwhile for Votto,through investment in the Reds Org. or money.I don't envision him letting him walk without putting up a fight.

    Having said that,I think the biggest obstacle is the non-winning tradition.It may be too late to change Votto's opinion of that and I think that will be one of the deciding factors with Joey.He can be set for life on any MLB team.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    But if Joey is hell bent on testing the free agent market time does matter.

    the closer Votto gets to becoming a free agent the less trade value he has.
    You might have some reduction in value in that it could cut back on your pool of trade partners, i.e. clubs that can't or won't extend him. But I don't think that's a huge factor.

    I don't subscribe to the belief that Votto is "hell bent on testing the free agenty market." He may, in fact, have every intent on doing that, but the only statement he's publicly made is that he couldn't say what he will want for his future come the end of the current contract and that was said a year ago. He's also been very frank that he understands that baseball is first, and foremost, a business. That might be construed as being "hell bent" and it could well mean that, but I don't believe it's a given. Votto has struck me as remarkably mature for his age. [NB: I understand you used word "if" to qualify your statement. Just wanted to acknowledge that]
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    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by wlf WV View Post
    I believe Castellini is loyal and protective of his people.I can see him making it worthwhile for Votto, through investment in the Reds Org. or money.I don't envision him letting him walk without putting up a fight.

    Having said that,I think the biggest obstacle is the non-winning tradition.It may be too late to change Votto's opinion of that and I think that will be one of the deciding factors with Joey.He can be set for life on any MLB team.
    You don't have to put up a fight to keep a player that wants to stick around. You just have to make a fair offer. Those are the two big keys:

    Will Votto want to stick around when it's for him to decide?

    and

    Will the Reds determine that they can afford to make a 'fair offer'?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Thats about the number the Reds will have to come up with - or even more if he keeps mashing like he has. That's why I said IF they can get it done it would be a great sign - also - if they then added a cast around him. I could see signing Votto and then cheap-skating it around him which would be just as bad as not signing him.
    Sorry, you're not going to have both. If he gets 140M - and I am not disagreeing with that figure, if it is the Reds, the supporting cast isn't going to be anything but cheap.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

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    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Extending Joey would be the worst thing this franchise could do. We have been down that road before and it was beyond bumpy. Smart organizations know when to flip their assets before it's too late. Guys like Ramon and Coco have me concerned Walt will botch this completely.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  10. #24
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by wlf WV View Post
    I believe Castellini is loyal and protective of his people.I can see him making it worthwhile for Votto,through investment in the Reds Org. or money.I don't envision him letting him walk without putting up a fight.
    Adam Dunn might disagree with your statement, even though hindsight has proven Castellini correct in not handing Dunn the keys to a Brinks truck full of cash.
    /r/reds

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Extending Joey would be the worst thing this franchise could do. We have been down that road before and it was beyond bumpy. Smart organizations know when to flip their assets before it's too late. Guys like Ramon and Coco have me concerned Walt will botch this completely.
    Can care to explain which previous road we've been down?

    The Griffey had deferred cash which the previous owners charged against their budget every year instead of setting up affordable annuities to cover it (how on earth do you own a major insurance company and not understand this?), not to mention the injuries which hampered his career here. Had they financed the deferrals properly, accounted for it over time, they might have had the money to put into other players.

    Cordero's contract, frankly, seemed to have given its value, although an argument can be made that it was too much money for that particular role on the club, although it's an open question. And what does any contract given by the Reds to Hernandez have to do with paying your franchise player over a long term contract. You seem to be comparing apples, oranges and bananas, when we're talking about a peach.

    I'm not trying to be snarky here, but you'll have to explain why any of these three unrelated players' contracts are equivalent to Votto's situation (although I grant that Griffey could be an apt comparison, except the club botched its execution).
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Always need to consider a players body type and position when giving a long term contract. Votto looks like a player who will age well, and plays a position that does not require a lot of movement. Biggest fear would be some type of hand or wrist injury, going forward. He also seems to be a model citizen and a very passionate and hard worker on the field. If you can afford it, and the player is open to staying, this one looks like a no-brainer to me. A player to build around and a face for the franchise.
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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Mods can the title of this thread be changed to "Re: Jocketty postures inorder to signal to other teams that Votto is going to cost a lot in trade?"

    Thanks.

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    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    It's silly to believe Votto would give Cincinnati or Toronto a home town discount, He lives in Florida.
    I don't think that's silly. Griffey lived in Florida and gave Cincinnati a home town discount.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  15. #29
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    I don't see how Votto would consider Cincinnati his hometown. Ken Jr did not give Seattle a hometown discount.

  16. #30
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Jocketty puts a end to Votto rumors; extension possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Extending Joey would be the worst thing this franchise could do. We have been down that road before and it was beyond bumpy. Smart organizations know when to flip their assets before it's too late. Guys like Ramon and Coco have me concerned Walt will botch this completely.
    Care to elaborate on that road we went down before?

    Paying top dollar to free agents, or to keep your own good players, only backfires if that player doesn't perform. If you pay Joey Votto $20M per season and he produces like a MVP caliber player is supposed to, then you don't have a problem there. The big key to me is whether or not your think Votto will age well or not. Will he age similar to Pujols or will he age like Jr. did? His position isn't as demanding as Jr's and without Votto's bat in the lineup this offense may be trouble.

    There have been two MVP caliber Reds players in the past 3 decades. I would be willing to pay Votto to be a Red for a long time.


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